Electrician, Gainsboro, TN

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Bill_F

Member
Location
MA
Occupation
Former Eng Student, and also electician helper
Afternoon good folks,

Wondering if anyone might be working in this TN area. My daughter recently moved there, has called 3 electrical companies, but with no calls back.

She needs a new panel installed in her (new) tiny home, just placed there. There is a drop at a pole, and right after the meter on the pole, is a panel with (it seems) 200 Amp disconnect, that then feeds 2 twenty amp breakers. It looks like single phase, 240 V AC, 3 wire, standard type residential. That panel is also screwed to the pole. There is also 2 receptacles fed from the 20 A breakers, screwed to the pole. She'll need a new line pulled from the pole to the house.

Problem also might indicate "lost" neutral. Initially, very high (150) & very low(30) voltages, measured at output of the 20 amp breakers. So, from 1 leg of the (2) hots, at output of breaker to the "neutral" bar. Should of course be 120V. There is nothing plugged in to the 2 receptacles.

Appreciate any help. Hope maybe one of the excellent folks we have here might be in that area.
Thanks very much!
Bill
 

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@Dennis Alwon Thank you very much for the lead!
Ill keep my ears out for @Little Bill .
:)
Looks like that panel is going to be the "service equipment" (main bonding jumper), as the neutrals & equipment ground are tied together. Suspect that neutral bar might be bonded to the panel frame. Not sure if it's rated "service" or not.
Thank you!
 
Bill can clarify bt if it's truly a "tiny home"(State says "ready removable") you may well have bigger problems as they have rough restrictions on powering those.
 
Hmmmm............. thanks. Well, it came on a flat bed type of truck, tilted off, & placed on cement blocks.
It's about 500 square feet. Has a little front, open, porch. New.

Man, I hope not! Daughter has had years of very unfortunate, luck.
 
Excellent, @augie47 .

This is an excellent group of folks, that really care to help out!
I've been reading here (& post just a little) for a long time.
Bill
 
augie47 said:
Bill can clarify bt if it's truly a "tiny home"(State says "ready removable") you may well have bigger problems as they have rough restrictions on powering those.
Click to expand...
I've not personally wired, or installed a service, on a Tiny House but I hear some inspectors treating them like a mobile home service, and some will allow them to be treated like a normal house service. Since the OP mentioned a service on a pole, I would just install it like a mobile home. Probably might have to replace the outdoor panel with one with feed thru lugs if the present one doesn't have them. OP hinted at a problem with existing but didn't go into details, so a new panel might be needed anyway.
 
The biggest difference in many "tiny homes" and mobile/manufactured homes is 3rd party inspections. Mobile homes have a "HUD" sticker indicating they met standards when constructed and, in TN, prewired buildings are required to have proof of inspection during the building process such as a "TN Green Seal". So many of the tiny homes have been wired without inspections and any such certifications thus a problem.
 
Good Morning @Little Bill ,

Thanks very, very much for your assistance!! I do appreciate your time, and thoughts.

By posting, I was hoping to see if we had any of our esteems electricians that worked that area. Great news - daughter just received a call back from an electrician!

I'm in MA, so not able to offer a ton of help for her, & the kids in TN. I certainly have passed the concerns about tiny houses, etc. to her, as well as a contact to a local inspector. I've advised her that the inspector may also be able to help snag an electrician.

Yes, there was an initial issue at the pole, at that panel attached there. It feeds just 2 different reeptacles, individually mouted on the pole, directly adjacent to the panel. Nothing plugged in to the recpts, no load, no other wiring. Looks like regular single phase, 3 wire, 240 / 120.

There was, it seemed, a "lost neutral" on the PoCo side. Crazy high / low on L1 to ground (neutral) bar, & the L2 to ground neutral. (See pic, post 1). However, when the conductors feeding the 2 recpts (incl neutrals) were removed, and a test (new) recept with test piece of # 12 applied, from L2 breaker, normal voltage (120) appeared on that recept. But, when a new (UF) short cable was run, and a GFCI wired on (line side), and a test with a 120 small drill, the GFCI apparently smoked.

I noticed that the neutrals & bare copper (EGC) are mixed in the same neutral bar. Suspect that panel may be "service" equipment, such that that panel may be where the only point where the "main bonding jumper" would be applied. As such, a new panel purchased for the house would NOT have the neutral anbd equipment ground bonded. (AKA sub panel). And yup, MLO may be appropriate.

And she'll need a load calc probably, as the house was not pre-wired, to figure panel capacity, and cable size for the run from the pole.

Again, Little Bill, thank you VERY, very much
Bill (the OTHER Bill)
:)
 
@augie47

Good morning!

And again, thank so much. Seems there is such a difference between states, but we know there is also differences just in localities.

And yup.... the smaller houses are becoming more prevalent out there, and we know it takes time for the regs to catch up.

Her's is about 500 feet sq, or so, with a nice front porch. Was not pre-wired.

Again, thanks, and I hope you have a great day!
Bill
 
augie47 said:
The biggest difference in many "tiny homes" and mobile/manufactured homes is 3rd party inspections. Mobile homes have a "HUD" sticker indicating they met standards when constructed and, in TN, prewired buildings are required to have proof of inspection during the building process such as a "TN Green Seal". So many of the tiny homes have been wired without inspections and any such certifications thus a problem.
Click to expand...
Haven't had any experience with the "tiny homes" but can see the same issues coming up here. I know in the past there has been problems with manufactured homes that come from out of state without prior approval. Also seen or heard of occasional off site fabricated items (not just residential items) that get brought in and have wiring already installed in them and essentially become part of the structure they are installed in. Had received a call one time from a company installing such equipment wanting me to represent them in some manner for pre made pre wired components in a local jail facility being built, because the inspector was giving them trouble passing it. Though it would have been interesting to see it, I was skeptical about it and turned them down. I had to ask myself why wouldn't the EC of the already ongoing project handle this as they would likely been doing nearly all the other wiring of the project?
 
Bill_F said:
Good Morning @Little Bill ,

Thanks very, very much for your assistance!! I do appreciate your time, and thoughts.

By posting, I was hoping to see if we had any of our esteems electricians that worked that area. Great news - daughter just received a call back from an electrician!

I'm in MA, so not able to offer a ton of help for her, & the kids in TN. I certainly have passed the concerns about tiny houses, etc. to her, as well as a contact to a local inspector. I've advised her that the inspector may also be able to help snag an electrician.

Yes, there was an initial issue at the pole, at that panel attached there. It feeds just 2 different reeptacles, individually mouted on the pole, directly adjacent to the panel. Nothing plugged in to the recpts, no load, no other wiring. Looks like regular single phase, 3 wire, 240 / 120.

There was, it seemed, a "lost neutral" on the PoCo side. Crazy high / low on L1 to ground (neutral) bar, & the L2 to ground neutral. (See pic, post 1). However, when the conductors feeding the 2 recpts (incl neutrals) were removed, and a test (new) recept with test piece of # 12 applied, from L2 breaker, normal voltage (120) appeared on that recept. But, when a new (UF) short cable was run, and a GFCI wired on (line side), and a test with a 120 small drill, the GFCI apparently smoked.

I noticed that the neutrals & bare copper (EGC) are mixed in the same neutral bar. Suspect that panel may be "service" equipment, such that that panel may be where the only point where the "main bonding jumper" would be applied. As such, a new panel purchased for the house would NOT have the neutral anbd equipment ground bonded. (AKA sub panel). And yup, MLO may be appropriate.

And she'll need a load calc probably, as the house was not pre-wired, to figure panel capacity, and cable size for the run from the pole.

Again, Little Bill, thank you VERY, very much
Bill (the OTHER Bill)
:)
Click to expand...
Good that someone contacted her! But warning, the State and local inspector will have to determine what, if anything, can be done to get power as these Tiny houses are very difficult to get approved according to the State.
 
@kwired ... thanks very, very much, good Sir!
Appreciate u tossing in what thoughts & experiences u have come across, thu' your good career.
As an aside... I have been a long time & avid reader, leaning much more here, than just the books & video.
But kwired... anytime I see a response from u to someone... I take the time to read what u post.
I so admire how u present, your obvious grasp of the electrical field, and serious knowledge & experience.
Again, if I see one of your posts (always helping others) I definitely read it, as I know I will gain great knowledge & understanding.
Thanks for what u do, and add to this great community.
Bill
 
Evening everyone............

The electrician believes there may be an issue with either the (200 A) disconnect, or the ground / neutral bar.

I suspect that panel being so old, it may be prudent and more cost effective to buy a new panel, vice swapping parts.

We'll see how it progresses.

And AGAIN....... thanks for the tremendous support!
Bill
 
Bill_F said:
Evening everyone............

The electrician believes there may be an issue with either the (200 A) disconnect, or the ground / neutral bar.

I suspect that panel being so old, it may be prudent and more cost effective to buy a new panel, vice swapping parts.

We'll see how it progresses.

And AGAIN....... thanks for the tremendous support!
Bill
Click to expand...
The electrcian, or your daughter needs to contact the inspector for that area and see what's going to be required to get power on for the Tiny House. As was mentioned, the State treats them very different so a discussion with the inspector or someone from the State would be prudent in this case.
 
Locally here in North Georgia, the development authority is having discussions on limiting or banning tiny homes, yurts, and other such structures. They already have a moratorium on RV parks for at least 5-10 years now.
 
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