affordable
Member
- Location
- Maine
Where in the code could I find a prohibition against having a main panel installed in a walk in cooler in a commercial establishment ?
electrician
- Thread starter affordable
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Why would it be an NEC violation?
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Would be awfly cold. I would consider it a storage closet. I would assume every inch to be used for storage. I can't imagine clearance would be maintained.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Interesting ........... so panels can not be installed in warehouses either?
If the rules of 110.26 are followed I see no issue and those rules in 110.26 are often violated even when the panels are installed in 'electric rooms'.
I doubt it's prohibited. On the other hand, I'd have some reservations about installing the panel in the cooler for the following reason; I've seen 20A breakers outdoors, hold 45 amps at 20 below zero. Okay for a plug in for your car block heater, but maybe not such a good idea where the heat should trip a breaker, but because ambient tremperature is such (cooled by the chiller) the breaker "thinks" (bi-metal thermal contrtolled by heat that causes your breaker to normally operate) all is well and doesn't perform.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
I assume that your talking about trailer size "walk-in's" well there is no problem with that. From a trailer size to a whole warehouse it doesn't matter. Where the problems starts is when run circuits that go out of that conditioned space, to another space not at the same temperature.
You'll need to read up on sealing, conduit system's around 501 and temperature changes 300.7 and all their requirements. Not all will require seal-off but just keep it in mind if even just going from sub-zero to just stand A/C spaces, as an example!
You'll need to read up on sealing, conduit system's around 501 and temperature changes 300.7 and all their requirements. Not all will require seal-off but just keep it in mind if even just going from sub-zero to just stand A/C spaces, as an example!
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
No violation about it I know of, but... there may be corrosion issues, as breakers heat up under load, they may draw moisture from the cool air and condense in the panel, and yes, any conduits leaving that area would have to be sealed.
- Location
- Massachusetts
You do understand that breakers are regularly installed outdoors in cold climates?
If you are really concerned you can get correction factors to use breakers in high or low temp extremes.
Nothing will condense on a warm object surrounded by cold temps.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
true but warm air coming in through the conduit, hitting the cold breakers and insides of the panel will.
every conduit that inters or leaves that space would have to be sealed as per 300.7(A) requirement.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
No seal offs would ever be required for a non hazard location, 300,7(A) only requires a sealing compound on the end or the conduit, like Duct seal or similar, it just has to be approved for the purpose. look at the last sentence in 300.7
- Location
- Massachusetts
I agree and would never say otherwise.
Warm air coming into the panel would kill it quickly, no maybe about it.
You bet.
But we digress, the OP was asking for a "prohibition against having a main panel installed in a walk in cooler" and I don't believe there is one. All other parts of the code would have to be followed just like any panel location.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I agree and would never say otherwise.
Warm air coming into the panel would kill it quickly, no maybe about it.
You bet.
But we digress, the OP was asking for a "prohibition against having a main panel installed in a walk in cooler" and I don't believe there is one. All other parts of the code would have to be followed just like any panel location.
darn't it, I have to agree with you again
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
Well sure, but then they could well be in the specifications though, and I have seen then in non hazardous locations. Seems it was more for the proper application of sealing off as opposed to using duct seal as a plug.
I do understand all too well. I also understand that when it's really rotten (colder than 40 below zero, metals start acting different. Perhaps Alaska is a bit to the extreme of cold, but we make a great place to do "cold weather testing".
When it's really cold, lots of things (besides one's attitude) end to go south when we really need the item to perform.
Another thing to consider when working in freezers - better to put on cold weather gear for the day, and stay inside the cooler all day, than to run in and out all day. In and outs, may leave you sick, whereas if you take everything you need to address the situation (and stay in for 5 to 6 hours) your health stands a better chance of staying well.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
I have seen Hid's in extreme low temp freezers that had Icicles hanging off of them, no penetrations to outside, only penetration was at switch on wall 20' down, sealed on both sides.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I think you would have to have a burned out lamp before that would happen, or at least one not being used, I have had to change HID's outside -20deg in the blowing wind, and the bulb still got hot enough to burn my gloves.
but if your saying that there is humidity in a cold environment, well of course there is, will it condense on something at a higher temp then the surrounding air? nope, it can't, physics won't let it, has to be the other way around.:grin:
Or you would never defog you windshield in your car.:roll:
Last edited:
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
What happens when you turn off the defroster and the it gets cold again? Just like turning off a heavy load, and the breaker cools?
There were 3' long icicles hanging off the working fixtures.
Len
Senior Member
- Location
- Bucks County
panel
panel
If walk in is considered a wet/damp location you cannot put panel there.
panel
If walk in is considered a wet/damp location you cannot put panel there.
Len
Senior Member
- Location
- Bucks County
panel
panel
If walk in is considered a wet/damp location you cannot put panel there. Check with your inspector, he should know.
panel
If walk in is considered a wet/damp location you cannot put panel there. Check with your inspector, he should know.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
I'll give you the AHJ comment.
The AHJ will also sign of on in-house maintained panels, I've seem panels is all sorts of rooms from wet-refrigated,
to deep freeze-wet where the panel became a tag locker. This is where NEMA rated panels come into to play.
While most modern plants have the services in a electrical room(s), dedicated space and with correct conditioned air. There's also alot of crazy looking stuff out there as well, and they all might not under a maintance staff.
Any one who ever worked in a food plant knows that theres more to the work, and it usually involve a step up in quality of the thought process and as to the workable nature a panels, for "a" application.
It just comes down to what the client wants to work with and pay for as to get a correct solution!
Last edited:
- Status