Electrician's statement ?

[Chris Simms]

I have been asked by a insurance company to look at a house (1960 era) and give a statement of the condition of the electrical. Any one know what they might be talking about? How about what to charge?

Chris

 

[mcclary's electrical]

If they want you to quote it, see how big it is. You can do 2000 sq foot inspection in 4 hours. Two stories, 4000 sq feet, allow eight hours. List how many branch circuits, what size, wiring method, list all violations. They will definately want to know if there's any aluminum branch circuits other than SE. Check all fans. I did two burn jobs last year caused by bath fans left running. All my fan installs, I now put a timer on them. Check for backstabs, recommend looping. List all violations, list all recommendations for repair, check all switches. It's easy to find grounds not terminated on switches. Go through with receptacle tester check polarity, & grounds. Trip all gfi's and afci's with tester. If you don't have an afci tester, allow $150 for one in the quote. Make sure all lights work. Check bonding and grounding closely in the panel. Check ground rods. Check water pipe bond. Check gas pipe bond.Check clearance of closet lights. Check working clearances of all equipment. List missing required outlets. Check for missing outlets outside. It will be an easy days pay and no material required.

 

[Chris Simms]

I think they just want me to look at the panel ect but I wasn't sure, I think it is so they can get a new insurance policy.
Chris

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I think they just want me to look at the panel ect but I wasn't sure, I think it is so they can get a new insurance policy.
Chris

You can inspect the panel in less than an hour. To inspect the house thoroughly would take a while.

 

[augie47]

Most in this area want to know the following:
(a) Breakers or fuses (b) any aluminum wiring (c) any obvious safety issues (d) are the overcurrent devices properly sized and (e) is there any knob & tube wiring.
I've seen a few that want as detailed report as McClary noted, but it's rare here.

 

[mkgrady]

You can inspect the panel in less than an hour. To inspect the house thoroughly would take a while.

I would be very careful how I worded a written inspection report. If you say the electrical system is safe and there is a fire caused by anything in the system you have liability.

 

[Dnkldorf]

I have been asked by a insurance company to look at a house (1960 era) and give a statement of the condition of the electrical. Any one know what they might be talking about? How about what to charge?

Chris

I'd stay away from offering my opinion on paper, to the condition of the electrical system for an insurance company.

I would refer them to an licenced inspector.

 

[Ohmy]

We usually charge it as a whole house inspection. That should be enough to cover 1 billable hour. Lots of folks use whole house inspections as "lose leaders" but you don't necessary want to do that with an insurance company that may not intend to do the work or use you.

At the end supply the inspection report (make up one if you don't have one yet), your recommendations (quote) and a letter. The letter generally points out any major flaws. I like to use the term "consistent other houses in the area" to cover code violations that were not violations when the house was built.

I personally, to not recommend vouching for or stating that the house is safe. That is a real liability issue and not necessary. What is necessary is that the insurance company know the condition of the house because they are the ones that will be on the hook.

 

[cowboyjwc]

The first thing you need to do is find out which code cycle the house was built under, and then find a copy of that book. 1960's no arc-faults (also there is no listed arc-fault tester, use the test button), you will not have gfi's unless recepts have been changed. Switches will not be grounded, and you may not have a ufer or ground rod unless the panel was changed out, most houses back then only had a cold water ground. You may not even have three wire recepts in a house that old. I'll take a stab the you'll either have steel flex or cloth cover cable.

You also need to go to the local AHJ and find out if and when things were added, swimming pools, kitchen remodels, room adds. Those things need to be inspected to the years(s) they were put in. Older pools will not have GFCI protection for the lights and you may find in deck boxes, things like that. Kitchen done after 1987 needed GFCI protection within 6' of the sink after 1996 all kitchen counter tops. GFCI protection anywhere didn't come into the code until 1971.

Be fair check for what should be there and not what you think should be there. You can always suggest GFCI protection, but you can't require it. Whatever code the sturcture was buit to, if it was not modified or changed is still in effect.

 

[petersonra]

I think you should consider whether your liability insurance coverage covers this kind of thing. You might also consider whether your EC license permits this kind of activity. I have been told in some areas EC's are no longer permitted to charge for this kind of inspection unless they are licensed as a home inspector. A situation I find somewhat humorous.

 

[growler]

I would refer them to an licenced inspector.

There is only one person that is considered qualified to inspect the electrical system of a property and that person is a licensed electrician.

Even when an engineer is hired to inspect a property the first thing he does is call a licensed contractor, the very minute that a home inspector gets in over his head he request the services of a licensed electrician.

The reason an electrician is needed is because non of the others is insured to remove and re-install items and check them out thoroughly.

 

[growler]

You might also consider whether your EC license permits this kind of activity. I have been told in some areas EC's are no longer permitted to charge for this kind of inspection unless they are licensed as a home inspector.

We can't do home inspections but electrical inspections is another matter. We have to inspect properties all the time. A licensed electrician is required to permit and inspect properties that have sit vacant for over a year just so power can be turned on. Sure the county inspector comes out and talks to the electrician for 10 minutes before calling it in but the liability goes to the contractor that inspected the property. That's why you really need to dig in there and make sure it's safe. They are never going to pay a county inspector to come out there and take half a day to do a real inspection, crawl in the crawl space and attic and make sure the vandals haven't been at it or the rats.

 

[ozark01]

In my opinion you need to list what you inspected to come up with your conclusion. The may include the panels, type of wire visible in the panel, GFCI'a if any, service type, etc.

Then you need to list what you did not inspect and why. The most common reason is something is not inspected is that it was not readily accessible.

I do this during a typical home inspection and it takes longer to write the report than to do the inspection.

 

[fondini]

insurance work

insurance work

We do these all the time, document, add pics and quote each code number. I purchased a book of electrical checklists and it provides all pertinent codes with a column to check off after inspecting each item. Insurance company loves them! We always end each report with a statement that all items checked are only a sampleing of the entire electrical system as complete inspection would require removal of drywall,carpet and insulation. That gives us an out. It is good work for the money!!!:grin:

 

[e57]

I used to do some of these way - way - back - in my service work days... Basically the insurance companies at the time wanted only a few things, a laundry list of blatent code violations, and if the panel was fuses, that all of them had rejectors in them so the could not stick any over-sized ones in. You may want to ask them what they want....

 

[K8MHZ]

I always wonder why the AHJ isn't asked to make the inspection. Since they are cheaper I always suspect that the reason is that there is no intention of making any repairs.

A thorough inspection requires removal of covers and plates, so on and so forth. If something bad happens, even if the inspection had nothing to do with it, the electrician winds up in the liability food chain.

 

[wawireguy]

I always wonder why the AHJ isn't asked to make the inspection.

The AHJ can't be sued and doesn't have an insurance company to cover them.. That's my take on that one.

 

[satcom]

I always wonder why the AHJ isn't asked to make the inspection. Since they are cheaper

AHJ cheaper? I don't know where you located, but in my area they make from $90 to 130K but that is cheap compared to a lot of EC's salary.

 

[growler]

I always wonder why the AHJ isn't asked to make the inspection. Since they are cheaper I always suspect that the reason is that there is no intention of making any repairs.

Why not just have the county or city out there wiring houses while we are at it. They always have a few electricians in lock-up so they could give good prices.

This inspection is being conducted by private industry at the insurance company's request. This is not just a code inspection, code violations of a dangerous nature should be reported but that's not what it's about.

The insurance company may decide to not insure a house just because it has a fuse panel or has knob and tube wiring and these are not code violations.

Different inspections have different inspection criteria. Many times an FHA home inspection is interested in service size, they don't like to approve loans on homes with less than a 100 amp service unless there is a licensed electrician that does a load calculation and proves that the service is actually adequate for the house, they may actually want to see GFCI receptacles even in homes built in the 1930s. A section eight houseing inspection will often require old loose receptacles to be replaced or even TR receptacles installed.

The NEC is not the only inspection critera used for all inspections. Again dangerous conditions should be reported but code violations may not be the only concern of those wanting the inspection performed.


Those requesting the inspection get to make the decision on the inspection criteria.

 

[mkgrady]

I purchased a book of electrical checklists and it provides all pertinent codes with a column to check off after inspecting each item. :

Could you tell us where you purchased the book? Or what it is called?