Electroluminescent Pathway Lighting

[mjaco]

I am looking for some opinions on what license will be required to install an Electroluminescent based emergency lighting system. The system operates off 120 and has battery backup. It is a current limited device with a max draw of about 1.5a. It requires 18awg twisted pair wirig and the lamp is mounted in plastic extrusions. All portions are UL Listed but the catch is the lamp material that actualy illuminates also acts as the electrical conductor.The lamps operate at 210vac 600hz. We are being told an E1 or E2 here in CT will be required to do the installation. This could be a significant cost added to the installation which is really no more than hanging a box on the wall, running 18awg wire and lamp material (.025" thick) and connections with wire nuts and the designed lamp connector. I do realize an E1 is required for the main input but to run track and wire seems like overkill.

Can anybody shed some light on this? Thank You

 

[dbuckley]

Can anybody shed some light on this?

For a first post, thats a pretty terrible pun...

 

[al hildenbrand]

Yeah. . .:smile:

I think we aught to create a new category for hazing first-timer posters.

Until we come up with it. . .mjaco, Welcome to the Forum!

 

[al hildenbrand]

mjaco,

I can't quite make out from your description. . .

Is the electroluminescent power supply something that is remote from the emergency light and is the power supply plugged into a receptacle?

Or is the electroluminescent power supply part of the emergency light and that power supply has leads that are wirenutted to the building branch circuit conductors in a junction box in, or on, the wall (or ceiling)?

To be clear, I'm not asking about the load side of the electroluminescent power supply, I'm asking about the line side.

 

[RayS]

it's my understanding that for most el equip, the actual drive voltage (hi volt, hi freg) is generated by a small switching power supply in the unit, so that the supply wiring could be limited energy. Then it could be run like alarm or tstat wiring.

 

[mjaco]

First, that was a terrrible pun and I deserved the newbie hazing. Even I wanted to send a comment after reading it.

Second, I have to admit I work for the manufacturer of this product. I am trying not to get so specific with the details of the product that my questions here look more like a sales pitch so apologize for being vague. We are in some new areas with this product and none of us are licensed installers so as we go to market with this new product we are running into questions we can not get straight answers to so I am looking to the experts for guidence (thats you guys).

The pathmarking system is a stand-alone product. The main unit houses the interface electronics, inverter (EL power supply) and battery system. It can be wired to the outputs of other systems or have manual controls to initiate the lighting outputs during an "event" or for testing.

The line side could be a simple plug in but we recommend it is hard wired to 120/240 since it is considered a life saftey device. The load side is where it gets confusing.

This system can drive 1500 linear feet of a 1/4 wide EL material (that we also make) through a buildings stairwells and some common areas. It is the installation of this EL lamp that is up in the air. Since we are classified as a Class 1 Power Limited System with a max load of 120w we are trying to nail down which license is required to run the field wires/lamp. The lamp itself is the conductor that gets mounted in a clear plastic extrusion (like wiremold). This surface mounted extrusion can also act as the wire chase. In theory you can intall 1500 feet of lamp with no output wiring. Since the output to the lamp is less than 2 amps max @ 220v/600hz can it be installed with a low voltage license or do we need to have an E1-E2 to install the whole thing. We are getting absolute answers but no reasoning behind them. Most people are not familiar with this technology and we are trying to get some understanding in an area we are not in. This is the only electified pathmarking system available and there are few codes and standards that can be directly applied. We are working to change that as well in CT first then with the ICC (see "CT senate bill 666")

I have 15 years experience installing access systems in the nuclear industry so I am familiar with "how" things are done but I want to make sure we are supporting our customers and the installers that will be involved the best way I can. We are just not sure who we need to get involved fire/security installers or electricians.

Al and Ray any opinions or answers would be greatly appreciated and this time I will leave the puns out.

Thank You
Mike Jacovino

 

[RayS]

I don't think this is gonna qualify under any of the "low voltage" exceptions (tho I don't know the specifics where you are) because:

not class 1 being over 30 volts (NEC 725)
not supplied by class 2 or 3 power supply (NEC table 11a in appendix)

also, this would prob. be a lighting circuit, as in 410, but not a low volt one like 411.

code online: http://www.nfpa.org/freecodes/free_access_agreement.asp?id=7005SB

 

[al hildenbrand]

Fascinating question, Mike.

I'm beginniing to see the quandry.

The light producing EL lamp is "utilization equipment" (NEC Article 100 Definitions) that can be up to 1500 feet long and the lamp is intended to be attached to the building surface.

The lamp requires 220 Volt 600 Hz ~ 2 Amp to produce light. The lamp power supply gets its power from a hard wired, or cord and plug, connection to a building branch circuit, the "premises wiring system" (NEC Article 100 Definitions).

Also from Article 100 Definitions:

Outline Lighting. An arrangement of incandescent lamps, electric discharge lighting, or other electrically powered light sources to outline or call attention to certain features such as the shape of a building or the decoration of a window.

(Note, this is explanatory "non-code" text included in the NFPA NEC Handbook -- Al) Revised for the 2005 Code, the definition of outline lighting now clearly includes low-voltage light-emitting diodes as well as other luminaires installed to form various shapes. See Article 600 for details on outline lighting.

And then, in Chapter 6 of the NEC

2005 NEC
Chapter 6 Special Equipment
ARTICLE 600 Electric Signs and Outline Lighting
I. General
600.1 Scope
This article covers the installation of conductors and equipment for electric signs and outline lighting. All installations and equipment using neon tubing, such as signs, decorative elements, skeleton tubing, or art forms, are covered by this article.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I may be missing a thing or two, but, in Article 600 it looks like these sections apply directly:

1. 600.8
2. 600.9(A), (C), (D)
3. 600.21
4. 600.23

The 2005 update in the Article 100 definition will probably work its way through the Article 600 language with time, and more Code revision cycles, and as more innovative luminaires, such as yours, are developed.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Oh, and I'm considering a "pathway" through a building (as you are calling this light a pathway light) to be a "feature" of a building -- as used in the Article 100 Definition.

 

[mjaco]

Guys thanks for all the inupt but slow down I can't read the code books this fast.

To be more specific about the product It is considered a Floor Proximity Path Marking System. This is mentioned in NFPA 101 (7.10.1.7) it also falls under UL 1994 and currently CA,RI,NYC,and CT have some portion of codes in place for these systems. Ct has a law that the codes and standards will be written for Jan 2008. Niether of these two standards are specific to EL or braod enought to diferentiate between EL (electric) and PM (glow in the dark) materials. We have presented these questions to many agencies who are equally confused. There is not a lot of information on this technology so the process is slow.

This EL material is used for many applications but UL has it listed (in other formats) as a signage component. This product including all components needed for installation are UL Listed for FPPM and that was not easy as it was the first one UL ever tested and they were not sure how to do it. Even during that process we needed to meet several items that did not apply because we are not the same as other products designed for similar tasks.

If you can let me know if I can post the company website that way you can see what it is we are working with.

Thanks again
Mike

 

[iwire]

First off welcome to the forum. :smile:

It is tough to answer your question as licensing and inspection rules / laws are not in the National electric code. Those issues are entirely up to each local area.

I do realize an E1 is required for the main input but to run track and wire seems like overkill.

I am not sure I agree.

Since the output to the lamp is less than 2 amps max @ 220v/600hz

2 amps @ 220 volt can certainly kill someone.

 

[al hildenbrand]

This product including all components needed for installation are UL Listed for FPPM

Is FPPM the UL Category Code? I don't see it in the online Certification Directories.

 

[mjaco]

Thanks iwire. I did not mean to insinuate that pulling wire or installing surface mount conduit was a job for unskilled labor and I certainly have a respect for electricity no matter what level it is. My stressing the 2a is in reference to CT codes.

Al... The UL category code is IMZI.(http://www.ul.com/lighting/ul1994.html) FPPM was the abreviaton for Floor Proximity Path Marking sorry to confuse things. Another name would Emergency Egress Path Marking or Low Level Path Marking. I was trying to save keystrokes.

My basic question is who has to install which parts of this system, Electricians or alarm installers? The code in CT for an L5 / C5 license says the system can not exceed 25v / 48v OR 5a. (http://www.ct.gov/dcp/lib/dcp/pdf/forms/cpr-80a.pdf) This is why we are confused. Is it a one or the other, or if either that defines the license?

We are not pushing for either level but it would be good to know who we should be working with as we start to train and set up dealers to keep things running smoothly. As the new codes are adopted we are hoping this product will catch on rapidly across the country. It has many energy, architectural, and maintenance properties that should make it much more attractive than the current technology for path marking.

Along with all this great info I would also appreciate any "personal" opinions on this system if you guys would not mind. You are welcome to contact me directly if this will cause us to go off mark with this forum.

Mike


Before anyone asks, there is NO tritium gas in our lamp material.

 

[al hildenbrand]

My basic question is who has to install which parts of this system, Electricians or alarm installers?

Minnesota, as a State, provides a Power Limited Technician license. The complete licensing language is at the Minnesota Electrical Act.

As you can read in the excerpt below, based on my understanding of your product, the FPPM system doesn't fit the definition of "technology circuits or systems".

THE MINNESOTA ELECTRICAL ACT

Minnesota Statutes, sections 326.01, subdivision 1 through 6m and sections 326.241 through 326.248

326.01 DEFINITIONS.
. . .

Subd. 6k. Power limited technician. The term "power limited technician" means a person having the necessary qualifications, training, experience, and technical knowledge to install, alter, repair, plan, lay out, and supervise the installing, altering, and repairing of electrical wiring, apparatus, and equipment for technology circuits or systems who is licensed as such by the board of electricity.

Subdivision 6l. Technology circuits or systems. "Technology circuits or systems" means class 2 or class 3 circuits or systems for, but not limited to, remote control, signaling, control, alarm, and audio signal, including associated components as covered by National Electrical Code, articles 640, 645, 725, 760, 770, and 780 and which are isolated from circuits or systems other than class 2 or class 3 by a demarcation and are not process control circuits or systems; antenna and communication circuits or systems as covered by chapter 8 of the National Electrical Code; and circuitry and equipment for indoor lighting and outdoor landscape lighting systems that are supplied by the secondary circuit of an isolating power supply operating at 30 volts or less as covered by National Electrical Code, article 411. The planning, laying out, installing, altering, and repairing of technology circuits or systems must be performed in accordance with the applicable requirements of the National Electrical Code pursuant to section 326.243.
. . .

 

[hbiss]

I think I get the picture but you are jumping all over with your description. Do you have a link to the product installation instructions or at least something that shows the location of the power supply and how its interconnected?

-Hal

 

[mjaco]

Hal, I understand..... I am trying to gain insight on a product that you guys are unfamiliar with. In an attempt to only present enough information to get my questions answered and I think I have confused you in the process.

I have attached page 3 of the product bulletin it should put things in perspective as this is the complete unit. The only parts not shown are the lamp components.

Please contact me directly and I will send you a complete copy of the new cut sheets.

 

[mjaco]

Where did every one go?

I have a picture of the lamp components as they were installed on one of our sample boards.

I must apologize for the lack of information that is readily available. I did say it was a new product. We are getting everything updated and ready. There is a code hearing on low level pathway systems in a few weeks so we will learn more then.

Thank you for the support and information. :smile:

Mike

 

[al hildenbrand]

I am looking for some opinions on what license will be required

IMO, for Minnesota, a licensed electrician (as opposed to a power limited technician) or an employee of an electrical contractor in direct supervision of a licensed electrician. You can get the exact language in the Minnesota Electrical Act.

 

[hbiss]

Ok, I looked at your product bulletin, that pretty much tells the story. This is a power supply that supplies power (the 3 output channels) to the EL "lamps". The installation of the wiring from the power supply to the lamps, insofar as the wiring method and who installs it depends on the classification of the output (again, the 3 output channels) in terms of whether they meet a Class 1, CL3 or CL2 listing specification. This would be something that is determined by your engineers during the design process in conjunction with UL specs for the three classes then verified by the testing lab (UL or other) that you submitted your product to for listing.

CL2 is the least "hazardous" followed by CL3. A CL2 or CL3 wiring method is the easiest to install since in most cases only a jacketed wire or cable is needed that would be installed in compliance with Article 725. A CL2 or CL3 listing is what you should be shooting for with this IMO.

Class 1 would require the wiring methods in Chapter 3 which are the same as any other wiring in a building for power and lighting. Most certainly with that listing the entire system would need to be installed by an licensed electrical contractor.

So the question now is has your "power supply" been submitted to one of the national testing labs and have the outputs (and also the control interfaces) been listed for a particular class of wiring? My understanding of the Code is that if a power supply product such as this is not listed it is to be assumed to require Class 1 wiring.

-Hal