Electrolysis on Res. water main

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Sparkyrob11

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I ran into this little situation two weeks ago. This 1" copper section of pipe was cut out. It was located several inches from where the copper main made the conversion to Poly about 10' out in the yard. I isolated the water pipe bonding electrode (that was run to the meter main) to see if I could get a voltage reading. Nothing. I clamped on an ammeter and started bumping loads to see if that was the problem. No change in readings. The GEC run to this pipe was about 85' #4 copper. The ufer is located right next to the meter (a 4' #4 copper run to rebar connection), and xformer is also on meter side of the house. Neutrals in Panel & meter were tight, so was the utility neutral connection in the meter (couldn't tell you how I know that) Could this be ground voltage using the water pipe? I'm obviously not an expert on grounding/ bonding, but this was a head scratcher for me. The City had been doing extensive utility work at the end of the street for months, and I thought maybe they'd lost a neutral for a while. I'd love to hear some ideas.
 
There's probably been a dozen times I've had customers, and their very grumpy plumbers, claim something with the electrical or the grounding causes pinholes or corrosion of the copper pipes. The solution, since you have the failed sample, is quite simple. It clears up the matter definitively and gets it off your plate. Here's the guys I use. Send them your sample, and they will tell you exactly why that pipe failed in that manner:

Richard Lewis
Lewis Engineering & Consulting
2106 NW 67th Place, Suite #2
Gainesville, FL 32053
352-375-7687
www.lewisengineering.net
 
It looks like the outside is where metal is missing, not the inside. Clamp location? Clamp too tight/loose? Improper current and arcing/pitting?
 
this piece was where the copper was inserted into a coupler to poly pipe. Clamp was about 11 feet from this section inside home next to shutoff valve.
 
I've had the "The elctrical isn't grounded right and is causing my pipes to corrode says the plumber" problem. It usually ends up being a sediment or the wter from a well pump issue.

From what I can see of the inside of the pipe, it's not corroded any more than a tint of green. That makes me think something other than the pipe corroding from the inside out from electrolysis (I've yet to see that with AC)
 
benmin said:
I've had the "The elctrical isn't grounded right and is causing my pipes to corrode says the plumber" problem. It usually ends up being a sediment or the wter from a well pump issue.

From what I can see of the inside of the pipe, it's not corroded any more than a tint of green. That makes me think something other than the pipe corroding from the inside out from electrolysis (I've yet to see that with AC)
Click to expand...

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/507790/testing/CopperPinholeLeaks.pdf

According to this paper, AC electricity has been disproven to cause this.
 
On that 3rd picture, those two larger holes look an awful lot like some of my screwdrivers, lol. If the damage is from the water I think it starts from the inside out. This pipe is quite thinned out where it joined the brass poly coupling. What do you think?
 
AC will not cause corrosion, but DC will. Since there was a poly pipe then then there is not a metallic path to the water main in the street, can pretty much rule out electrical.
Mike Holt sent me an email a month ago from a person in Arizona who had a 4 year old house with extensive corrosion of the copper pipes.

For her and this, I suggest contacting the water supplier and ask for a copy of the EPA required customer confidence report, review it for any issues or violations.

A low water pH will cause corrosion of the lead and copper, where I am we add a caustic to raise the pH from 7.5 to 8.5, this is per the EPA Lead and Copper rule.
The Arizona location probably was due to high nitrates. Its one of only two parameters that have a maximum contaminate level. It can cause corrosion and health effects

Every one is always quick to blame the electrician, I have a 1943 report from the IAEI that says electrical grounding is not a problem.
 
This home is <a year old. I'm hearing the same thing from all sources, so I'm siding with "not my installation", but unfortunately the GC threw away the pipe section... so much for getting it tested by Lewis Engineering, Inc. I was really hoping for a definitive answer.:mad:
 
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