Elevator phone cable type, is this a protected class?

[DJB2nd]

Hi,
I have been reading a number of codes on protected pathways, and I have not yet come to a clear idea if the elevator phone is supposed to be a 2 or 3-hour rated path to the demarc, or even just regular plenum cable. I do appreciate your sharing experiences on elevator phones.

 

[hbiss]

All I have ever run is regular cable, not even plenum if it wasn't required because of where it was run in the building.

-Hal

 

[gadfly56]

The elevator environment has been very dynamic over the past few years. This is going to be very much a case-by-case sort of thing. Right now you have 3 conditions; standard passenger elevator, occupant evacuation elevator, and fire service elevator. If the hoistway is 2-hour fire rated, as many new ones are, I can see the need for CI cable for 2-hour survivability. You need to coordinate closely with the designer and AHJ.

 

[hbiss]

If the hoistway is 2-hour fire rated, as many new ones are, I can see the need for CI cable for 2-hour survivability. You need to coordinate closely with the designer and AHJ.

I was talking about running a phone line to the elevator equipment room. Put a jack on the wall or leave it hanging, that's it. We would NEVER be allowed to get involved with running cable to the cab in the hoistway. That's the job of the licensed elevator installer and the manufacturer. The phone pair is always part of the travelling cable anyway and whatever that needs to be will include the phone. So, I don't know what you are talking about.

-Hal

 

[DJB2nd]

I was talking about running a phone line to the elevator equipment room. Put a jack on the wall or leave it hanging, that's it. We would NEVER be allowed to get involved with running cable to the cab in the hoistway. That's the job of the licensed elevator installer and the manufacturer. The phone pair is always part of the travelling cable anyway and whatever that needs to be will include the phone. So, I don't know what you are talking about.

-Hal

Hal,
Sorry for the confusion. My discussion has been connecting the data room POTS-to-VOIP adapter, to the elevator control phone connection, in the elevator control panel. I agree with not touching traveler cable, etc. I believe the answer lies in the IBC, not NFPA.

Here is the article :

IBC 2021, 3007.8.1 Protection of wiring or cables.


Wires or cables that are located outside of the elevator hoistway and machine room and that provide normal or standby power, control signals, communication with the car, lighting, heating, air conditioning, ventilation, and fire-detecting systems to fire service access elevators shall be protected using one of the following methods:


1. Cables used for survivability of required critical circuits shall be listed in accordance with UL 2196 and shall have a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours.
.....

I read "communication" as the elevator phone. Where using CI cable looks to be the wire of choice?

 

[gadfly56]

I was talking about running a phone line to the elevator equipment room. Put a jack on the wall or leave it hanging, that's it. We would NEVER be allowed to get involved with running cable to the cab in the hoistway. That's the job of the licensed elevator installer and the manufacturer. The phone pair is always part of the travelling cable anyway and whatever that needs to be will include the phone. So, I don't know what you are talking about.

-Hal

Sometimes the elevator cars have phone jacks for the fire fighters' telephones. That's what I was talking about. Also, the built-in 2-way communicator often goes to an off-site central station and would likely fall at least partially under NFPA 72.

 

[gadfly56]

Hal,
Sorry for the confusion. My discussion has been connecting the data room POTS-to-VOIP adapter, to the elevator control phone connection, in the elevator control panel. I agree with not touching traveler cable, etc. I believe the answer lies in the IBC, not NFPA.

Here is the article :

IBC 2021, 3007.8.1 Protection of wiring or cables.


Wires or cables that are located outside of the elevator hoistway and machine room and that provide normal or standby power, control signals, communication with the car, lighting, heating, air conditioning, ventilation, and fire-detecting systems to fire service access elevators shall be protected using one of the following methods:


1. Cables used for survivability of required critical circuits shall be listed in accordance with UL 2196 and shall have a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours.
.....

I read "communication" as the elevator phone. Where using CI cable looks to be the wire of choice?

That's where the circuit integrity (CI) cable comes in. Could be some flavor of VitaLink.

 

[hbiss]

I have been reading a number of codes on protected pathways, and I have not yet come to a clear idea if the elevator phone is supposed to be a 2 or 3-hour rated path to the demarc

My discussion has been connecting the data room POTS-to-VOIP adapter, to the elevator control phone connection, in the elevator control panel.

That's what I was talking about. Doesn't matter if it's copper from the carrier or using a VoIP to POTS adapter, it always originated from the telephone room and nothing special was run from it to the elevator machine room.

There are VoIP elevator phones (which I have never used) but it should be the same situation. Cat5 or 6 from the elevator machine room to the server room or switch location.

Sometimes the elevator cars have phone jacks for the fire fighters' telephones. That's what I was talking about. Also, the built-in 2-way communicator often goes to an off-site central station and would likely fall at least partially under NFPA 72.

Now we are talking about firefighter and life-safety systems which is a different animal than a "help, I'm stuck in the elevator" phone.

-Hal

 

[cabledawg]

Most that Ive seen are usually piped in to elevator mechanical room anyways, If your the only 1 on a jobsite and dont know what to run, Go plenum! Or you can ask and electrician or the GC. Peace.

 

[hbiss]

If your the only 1 on a jobsite and dont know what to run, Go plenum!

Why? Unless it runs through a space that requires it because the space conveys environmental air. If you are thinking that plenum cable offers added protection for the wire if it should be exposed to fire, no. It melts just as fast as PVC. Plenum cable only protects the environment because when it burns it creates less products of combustion. It also doesn't allow flame to propagate vertically if it is run that way.

-Hal

 

[Todd0x1]

"help, I'm stuck in the elevator" phone.

If I were using the phone to report "help, I'm stuck in the elevator which also happens to be on fire" I would hope the cable is 2hr rated.....just saying....

 

[hbiss]

If I were using the phone to report "help, I'm stuck in the elevator which also happens to be on fire" I would hope the cable is 2hr rated.....just saying....

In that case the phone would be the least of your worries.

-Hal