Elevator recall control voltage

[dhalleron]

I guess this fits in the low voltage forum since it's fire alarm related.

Are there many elevators still in service that use 120vac on the control circuit for elevator recall? Are there any new controllers that use anything other than low voltage?

Have a manufacturer whose addressable relay cannot control anything over 28 VDC or AC with its contacts. Most real fire alarm panels rate their contacts at least a minimum current such as ? amp at 120VAC. The rep tried to argue with me that elevators don?t use 120 volts on the recall circuit so they don't need a relay for that purpose. Since we both have over 20 years in the field it became a pi**ing match and I just got up and left the room.

 

[gadfly56]

I guess this fits in the low voltage forum since it's fire alarm related.

Are there many elevators still in service that use 120vac on the control circuit for elevator recall? Are there any new controllers that use anything other than low voltage?

Have a manufacturer whose addressable relay cannot control anything over 28 VDC or AC with its contacts. Most real fire alarm panels rate their contacts at least a minimum current such as ? amp at 120VAC. The rep tried to argue with me that elevators don?t use 120 volts on the recall circuit so they don't need a relay for that purpose. Since we both have over 20 years in the field it became a pi**ing match and I just got up and left the room.

Go with Siemens. 4 amps at 120VAC.

 

[MichaelGP3]

I ran into one situation (I might've even posted here about it, this occurred @ 1995) where the fire alarm contractor was required to furnish a relay with contacts that were rated for 130 VDC. This was the voltage that the Japanese manufactured elevator controller required to be switched; I'm not remembering the current, but I think it was less than an amp, and maybe less than a third of an amp.

 

[dhalleron]

Go with Siemens. 4 amps at 120VAC.

I know other "real" fire alarm system relays can do it. I just have to deal with this combo fire/burg system quite often. They didn't think it was important to have their relays listed over 28VDC. My guess is the relay is similar to other brands; it just can't do more than 28V on paper.

I wasn't asking for a system that has a rated relay. I was asking if it is common for elevator control circuit voltage to be more than 28v. This rep tried to use the argument that I don?t need a 120v relay since elevators use PLC at low voltage.

 

[gadfly56]

I know other "real" fire alarm system relays can do it. I just have to deal with this combo fire/burg system quite often. They didn't think it was important to have their relays listed over 28VDC. My guess is the relay is similar to other brands; it just can't do more than 28V on paper.

I wasn't asking for a system that has a rated relay. I was asking if it is common for elevator control circuit voltage to be more than 28v. This rep tried to use the argument that I don?t need a 120v relay since elevators use PLC at low voltage.

I have a vauge recollection reading a technical paper on relay design, and there is a real difference between the dual voltage rated and the low voltage only. And you're right, I wouldn't take the rep's word for it re the control circuit voltage. See what the elevator maintenance folks have to say.

By the way, just because they sell the panel for fire/burg doesn't mean its listed for commercial use. Are you using a Vista series panel? I know that those are good for commercial. (I assume this is a commercial application since you have an elevator.)

 

[dpeter]

I have a 1980's vintage Westinghouse elevator that has 138 VDC control that also utilizes that for the firemans recall.

 

[dhalleron]

Yes it's a Vista commercial fire rated panel. None of it's relays are rated for anything over 28VDC or AC.

I just don't like the idea of needing to use an interposing relay all the time when a "real" fire alarm panel can do it all day long on most applications with the standard addressable relay.

dpeter's 1980's 138 VDC might be a problem for many addressable relays even if not using this combo panel. It's been a good many years, but I wired elevator recall on elevators that were installed long before the 80's. I just can't remember for sure the recall circuit voltage.

 

[George Stolz]

Why not just install the HD relay and be done with it? I've put in HDs where shown on the print when I thought it was a waste of material. It wasn't my design to play with, so...