Elevator Recall with Shunt Trip and non-addressable Fire Alarm System

[Tainted]

It is quite simple to wire elevator recall with shunt trip in an addressable fire alarm system, what if the system is conventional and non-addressable? How does the wiring differ to achieve this?

 

[hillbilly1]

They just use a zone relay.

 

[gadfly56]

It is quite simple to wire elevator recall with shunt trip in an addressable fire alarm system, what if the system is conventional and non-addressable? How does the wiring differ to achieve this?

This is not easy to do, mostly because the current fire alarm codes consider the default installation to be some type of addressable system. The sticking point is that the relay driving the shunt coil is supposed to be within 3 feet of the shunt mechanism. If you're trying to use a conventional system, usually all you have are the on-board relays. In very few instances are you going to be able to mount the fire alarm control unit within 3 feet of the shunt mechanism. You could get around this if the shunt could be rigged as normally closed (Class D), that way if the wire broke, you'd operate the shunt. That of course means that any ooops! will freeze the elevator cab in the hoistway.

Frankly, I wouldn't even attempt it. Buy a cheap addressable panel if you have to, because if you're worried about the shunt, you've got primary recall, alternate recall, and fireman's hat to worry about as well.

 

[Tainted]

This is not easy to do, mostly because the current fire alarm codes consider the default installation to be some type of addressable system. The sticking point is that the relay driving the shunt coil is supposed to be within 3 feet of the shunt mechanism. If you're trying to use a conventional system, usually all you have are the on-board relays. In very few instances are you going to be able to mount the fire alarm control unit within 3 feet of the shunt mechanism. You could get around this if the shunt could be rigged as normally closed (Class D), that way if the wire broke, you'd operate the shunt. That of course means that any ooops! will freeze the elevator cab in the hoistway.

Frankly, I wouldn't even attempt it. Buy a cheap addressable panel if you have to, because if you're worried about the shunt, you've got primary recall, alternate recall, and fireman's hat to worry about as well.

Ok bottom line so you're saying the relay driving the shunt trip must be within 3' of the shunt trip,.. since it's conventional, the relays are internal to the fire alarm system preventing it to be code compliant. But how does rigging the shunt trip make it code compliant I don't understand, please explain I'm trying to understand what you mean.

 

[hillbilly1]

Back when I did old school systems, it was common to have remote supervised relays to control the shunt trip breaker, it was mounted in the elevator room right next to the shunt trip breaker which was in its own enclosure. Did them all the time. That was Edwards fire alarm systems, Simplex wasn’t as easy, they were kinda screwy to install.

 

[Tainted]

Back when I did old school systems, it was common to have remote supervised relays to control the shunt trip breaker, it was mounted in the elevator room right next to the shunt trip breaker which was in its own enclosure. Did them all the time. That was Edwards fire alarm systems, Simplex wasn’t as easy, they were kinda screwy to install.

Is it still allowed to be done this way with a conventional system?

 

[hillbilly1]

That was about 30 years ago, I haven’t done any fire alarm work since, so I don’t know what the requirements would be now, I just know it can be done.

 

[Suzuki360]

This is not easy to do, mostly because the current fire alarm codes consider the default installation to be some type of addressable system. The sticking point is that the relay driving the shunt coil is supposed to be within 3 feet of the shunt mechanism. If you're trying to use a conventional system, usually all you have are the on-board relays. In very few instances are you going to be able to mount the fire alarm control unit within 3 feet of the shunt mechanism. You could get around this if the shunt could be rigged as normally closed (Class D), that way if the wire broke, you'd operate the shunt. That of course means that any ooops! will freeze the elevator cab in the hoist way.

Frankly, I wouldn't even attempt it. Buy a cheap addressable panel if you have to, because if you're worried about the shunt, you've got primary recall, alternate recall, and fireman's hat to worry about as well.

all the new guys around today don't understand the old school relay logic that used to run the entire world in the dinosaur days.