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ELEVATOR SHUNT TRIP.

A

ALPIZZI

Member
Location
LA
Occupation
FIRE ALARM SERVICE
LOOKING FOR A RESOLUTION TO ELEVATORS SHUNTING DURING A GENERATOR RUN AND POWER CUT OVER.

BACK STORY.

ORIGINALLY THE SHUNTS TRIP HAD NOTIFIER FCM FOR SHUNTING AND RECALL.
WE FOUND THAT 24V WAS GETTING THROUGH THE FCM WHEN EMERGENCY POWER IS SWITCHING OVER. WHICH CAUSED THE SECONDARY RELAY TO CHANGE STATE CAUSING SHUNT AND RECALL.

PER NOTIFIER I CHANGED FCM TO FRM RELAYS.
APPEARED TO WORK. TESTED 1 BANK OF ELEVATORS FUNCTIONED PROPERLY.
I COMPLETED REPLACING ALL FCMS FOR FRMS FOR ALL ELEVATORS.

ONCE COMPLETED THE ENGINEERS TESTED THE GENERATORS AND ALL ELEVATORS SHUNTED DURING POWER CUT OVER.

SO CANT SEEM TO FIND THE PROPER CASUE OF THIS ISSUE. EITHER 24V IS GETTING THROUGH THE FRM RELAY OR THE ISSUE IS THE ACTUAL SHUNT TRIP BREAKER.

ANY IDEAS OR INFORMATION WORLD BE APPRECIATED.

HAS ANYONE ELSE DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE?
 
ATSman

ATSman

ATSman
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Occupation
Electrical Engineer/ Electrical Testing & Controls
ALPIZZI said:
LOOKING FOR A RESOLUTION TO ELEVATORS SHUNTING DURING A GENERATOR RUN AND POWER CUT OVER.

BACK STORY.

ORIGINALLY THE SHUNTS TRIP HAD NOTIFIER FCM FOR SHUNTING AND RECALL.
WE FOUND THAT 24V WAS GETTING THROUGH THE FCM WHEN EMERGENCY POWER IS SWITCHING OVER. WHICH CAUSED THE SECONDARY RELAY TO CHANGE STATE CAUSING SHUNT AND RECALL.

PER NOTIFIER I CHANGED FCM TO FRM RELAYS.
APPEARED TO WORK. TESTED 1 BANK OF ELEVATORS FUNCTIONED PROPERLY.
I COMPLETED REPLACING ALL FCMS FOR FRMS FOR ALL ELEVATORS.

ONCE COMPLETED THE ENGINEERS TESTED THE GENERATORS AND ALL ELEVATORS SHUNTED DURING POWER CUT OVER.

SO CANT SEEM TO FIND THE PROPER CASUE OF THIS ISSUE. EITHER 24V IS GETTING THROUGH THE FRM RELAY OR THE ISSUE IS THE ACTUAL SHUNT TRIP BREAKER.

ANY IDEAS OR INFORMATION WORLD BE APPRECIATED.

HAS ANYONE ELSE DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE?
Click to expand...
I'm confused. If after replacing the relays with FRMS, everything worked ok ? Are you asking why this corrected the problem?
 
A

ALPIZZI

Member
Location
LA
Occupation
FIRE ALARM SERVICE
Sorry
I replaced the FRMs in 1 bank of Elevators and it worked during Elevator inspection.

I’m not sure if the elevator or engineering personnel had something on bypass.

So once we passed the inspection we completed the FRM replacement for the remaining banks of elevators.

A generator test was completed by Engineering and all elevators continued to shunt.
 
ATSman

ATSman

ATSman
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Occupation
Electrical Engineer/ Electrical Testing & Controls
ALPIZZI said:
Sorry
I replaced the FRMs in 1 bank of Elevators and it worked during Elevator inspection.

I’m not sure if the elevator or engineering personnel had something on bypass.

So once we passed the inspection we completed the FRM replacement for the remaining banks of elevators.

A generator test was completed by Engineering and all elevators continued to shunt.
Click to expand...
So can you answer my questions?
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I would suspect a panel programming issue. There's no way you should be getting a shunt trip activation simply on the roll over to generator power. The FRM relays are open and no voltage will be available to the coil, no matter the main building power source. The fire alarm panel has it's own battery backup which should prevent any hiccups on the SLC loop. If the generator running state is monitored by the fire alarm panel, I'd look for some function that is taking that information and causing an output to the elevator relays. Maybe some other relays are activated when the generator is running, and someone dragged the elevator relays into the output group by accident.
 
A

ALPIZZI

Member
Location
LA
Occupation
FIRE ALARM SERVICE
gadfly56 said:
I would suspect a panel programming issue. There's no way you should be getting a shunt trip activation simply on the roll over to generator power. The FRM relays are open and no voltage will be available to the coil, no matter the main building power source. The fire alarm panel has it's own battery backup which should prevent any hiccups on the SLC loop. If the generator running state is monitored by the fire alarm panel, I'd look for some function that is taking that information and causing an output to the elevator relays. Maybe some other relays are activated when the generator is running, and someone dragged the elevator relays into the output group by accident.
Click to expand...
I agree that why I installed FRMs instead of FCMs. You have a valid point. I’m going to look into the program in depth.

Notifier seems to think maybe a surege is getting through but I highly doubt that.
Thanks for the info
 
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