Eliminating CFL bulbs, possibly even incandescent

[jeff48356]

I'm just wondering if this year, 2017, will be the year where stores FINALLY do away with CFL bulbs in favor of LED bulbs. The prices of LED bulbs has dropped so much over the past year or two, and now a standard LED bulb is not much more than a CFL or an incandescent. LED's go for $1.97 per bulb, where incandescents go for $1.17 and have to be replaced frequently, where LED's last indefinitely. CFL prices are in between those.

CFL's have a laundry list of negatives, and no advantages anymore over LED's, making them completely obsolete. These include:

1) They contain mercury.
2) They do not turn on instantly to full brightness.
3) They are not dimmable. (Some are, but they cost a lot more than dimmable LED's)
4) They break easily, leaving traces of mercury around
5) They still get hot, like an incandescent bulb
6) They burn out quickly, especially when turned on/off frequently
7) They cause premature failure of neon lights built into illuminated switches.

 

[mbrooke]

Speaking from personal experience I despise, abhor and condemn CFLs. I had episodes over the decade where I gave them a chance for several different reasons (efficiency, longevity,latest trend) and soon ended up switching back to incandescent. The light is vomit regardless of the color temperature or price level, I've had two that actually burned up and smoked, the mercury is a no-no in my book considering how easily they break- sometimes automatically when they hit the end of life because the cathodes do not shut down continuing to heat the glass until it cracks when the bulb will not light. I never liked the long warm up time either. Smaller complaints for me are that in enclosed fixtures they failed much quicker, and I've had to try a several brands for outdoors because some will not light below 20*F.

4) They break easily, leaving traces of mercury around

3-10 milligrams is not a trace amount. In my world trace amounts would be the normal background levels of mercury found in the environment.

Now, compare to LED. The first major LED markets were descent and I tried a few and are still running. Only down side beside the cost was the large aluminum sinks; and the light quality while light years ahead of CFL, was still not up to par in some cases to incandescent and halogen. Just recently it broke even for me. I tried a bunch of LED filament lamps last year and I have to say I was so impressed we ended up buying a 2 cases of A19s. The light is nearly identical, often indistinguishable, and I have zero complaints. I am currently replacing all of my A19s, PARs, and BR40s with LED as they burn out. To be frank I am not looking back and would not care of all general use incandescents went away.

 

[peter d]

That horse already left the barn a while ago, CFL is dying rapidly and all manufacturer R&D effort is 100% LED now. The CFL market is limited to lamp and ballast replacement now for existing installations, there certainly is no new CFL being installed anymore.

 

[mbrooke]

Here is what the new LEDs look like:

The ones that come in frosted literally look and function identical to a standard soft white A19. Only give away is that the bulb runs much cooler to the touch, other than that what LED bulb? :huh: Did I mentioned they come in a pack of 4 for about 3.99?

 

[petersonra]

I have had some CFLs that have lasted ten years or more, and some that only lasted a few months.

I don't buy them anymore. Only LEDs.

I did find a bag of incandescent bulbs the other day.

 

[K8MHZ]

Here is what the new LEDs look like:

The ones that come in frosted literally look and function identical to a standard soft white A19. Only give away is that the bulb runs much cooler to the touch, other than that what LED bulb? :huh: Did I mentioned they come in a pack of 4 for about 3.99?

Are those glass, or plastic?

 

[peter d]

Are those glass, or plastic?

Glass.

 

[Besoeker]

Speaking from personal experience I despise, abhor and condemn CFLs. I had episodes over the decade where I gave them a chance for several different reasons (efficiency, longevity,latest trend) and soon ended up switching back to incandescent. The light is vomit regardless of the color temperature or price level, I've had two that actually burned up and smoked, the mercury is a no-no in my book considering how easily they break- sometimes automatically when they hit the end of life because the cathodes do not shut down continuing to heat the glass until it cracks when the bulb will not light. I never liked the long warm up time either. Smaller complaints for me are that in enclosed fixtures they failed much quicker, and I've had to try a several brands for outdoors because some will not light below 20*F.




3-10 milligrams is not a trace amount. In my world trace amounts would be the normal background levels of mercury found in the environment.

Now, compare to LED. The first major LED markets were descent and I tried a few and are still running. Only down side beside the cost was the large aluminum sinks; and the light quality while light years ahead of CFL, was still not up to par in some cases to incandescent and halogen. Just recently it broke even for me. I tried a bunch of LED filament lamps last year and I have to say I was so impressed we ended up buying a 2 cases of A19s. The light is nearly identical, often indistinguishable, and I have zero complaints. I am currently replacing all of my A19s, PARs, and BR40s with LED as they burn out. To be frank I am not looking back and would not care of all general use incandescents went away.

We used panel indicator lamps since Adam was a boy. In the early days these were incandescent filament lamps with different coloured lenses. An aassembly comprising several parts.
Around 25 years ago, a customer on a fairly project, two 2.25MW VSDs (about 3,000 HP) specified LED panel indicators. These are 22mm indicators like these:

There have been zero failures and some of the indicators are on 24/7 except for about two weeks a year when the plant is down for maintenance

Most of my lights at home are LED. Lower running costs, light quality and longevity were the main deciding factors. The purchase price may be greater but the logevity more than offsets that.
It's a bit of a no brainer.

 

[ActionDave]

I have cfl all over my house. Some have lasted more than ten years with daily use, some less, no trouble with any of them.

I just added some led to try them out. I'm happy with them too except my dimmable leds don't dim down real low and they turn an awful grey color.

 

[gadfly56]

Speaking from personal experience I despise, abhor and condemn CFLs. I had episodes over the decade where I gave them a chance for several different reasons (efficiency, longevity,latest trend) and soon ended up switching back to incandescent. The light is vomit regardless of the color temperature or price level, I've had two that actually burned up and smoked, the mercury is a no-no in my book considering how easily they break- sometimes automatically when they hit the end of life because the cathodes do not shut down continuing to heat the glass until it cracks when the bulb will not light. I never liked the long warm up time either. Smaller complaints for me are that in enclosed fixtures they failed much quicker, and I've had to try a several brands for outdoors because some will not light below 20*F.




3-10 milligrams is not a trace amount. In my world trace amounts would be the normal background levels of mercury found in the environment.

Now, compare to LED. The first major LED markets were descent and I tried a few and are still running. Only down side beside the cost was the large aluminum sinks; and the light quality while light years ahead of CFL, was still not up to par in some cases to incandescent and halogen. Just recently it broke even for me. I tried a bunch of LED filament lamps last year and I have to say I was so impressed we ended up buying a 2 cases of A19s. The light is nearly identical, often indistinguishable, and I have zero complaints. I am currently replacing all of my A19s, PARs, and BR40s with LED as they burn out. To be frank I am not looking back and would not care of all general use incandescents went away.

Don't eat tuna fish sandwiches. A sandwich with 6 oz of tuna fish has about 48 micrograms of mercury in it. The estimated exposure (what you actually ingest) from a broken CFL is 0.07 micrograms, not the full 4 milligrams.

I don't care for the fact that you can't seem to get 100w equivalent LED's. I like it surgery-suite bright when I'm reading or doing close work. And, I don't believe the longevity claims for LED's after my experience with CFL's. I date my CFL's on the base, and the most I've ever gotten was about 2 years. The last time I purchased lamps for the can lights in the kitchen I got incandescent PAR 38's. Still the best buy on a dollar per lumen basis.

 

[K8MHZ]

I don't care for the fact that you can't seem to get 100w equivalent LED's.

I have one over my workbench that I got at Lowe's. I love it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SYLVANIA-1...e-A21-LED-Light-Fixture-Light-Bulb/1000129839

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SYLVANIA-1...t-A21-LED-Light-Fixture-Light-Bulb/1000129847

 

[Besoeker]

I got incandescent PAR 38's. Still the best buy on a dollar per lumen basis.

Perhaps lowest cost to buy..........but that is not the only cost to be considered.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am fortunate that most of the bulbs in my home have never burned out in over 30 years, Hard to believe but true. I finally realized why this is so. Other than we are good about not leaving lights on unnecessarily the voltage from the power company at my house is very low-- 113v-116v. I am guessing that is why they don't burn out.

I have recently replaced a bunch of R30's with Led's. We'll see how they do-- I'll let you know in 30 years

 

[K8MHZ]

I am fortunate that most of the bulbs in my home have never burned out in over 30 years, Hard to believe but true. I finally realized why this is so. Other than we are good about not leaving lights on unnecessarily the voltage from the power company at my house is very low-- 113v-116v. I am guessing that is why they don't burn out.

I have recently replaced a bunch of R30's with Led's. We'll see how they do-- I'll let you know in 30 years

How long do your refrigerators last?

 

[gadfly56]

Perhaps lowest cost to buy..........but that is not the only cost to be considered.

Absolutely true. Those can lights are dimmable, and dimmable CFL's are hideously expensive compared to incandescents. Based on my electricity costs, I need to get about 4 years out of a CFL to start saving money on electricity costs. Now, if you're in California where they use the smart meters in some areas to charge you $0.90/kWhr under peak conditions, that could be a different story.

I do have a couple of LED lamps installed over the bathroom vanity. They were givaways at some ecology fair they had at my church. I will admit, they have been going strong for almost three years now, and they have the highest duty cycle other than the kitchen lights. Another couple years in service and some price reductions and I'll probably move the whole house over.

 

[K8MHZ]

Glass.

Well, it looks pretty, but one reason I like the LEDs I have is that they are plastic. You can drop them on a hard floor and they don't break. I'll bet they are great for trouble lights.

 

[gadfly56]

I have one over my workbench that I got at Lowe's. I love it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SYLVANIA-1...e-A21-LED-Light-Fixture-Light-Bulb/1000129839

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SYLVANIA-1...t-A21-LED-Light-Fixture-Light-Bulb/1000129847

Thanks for the info. I may consider them IFF I can be sure of their reliability. I went on Amazon and found that another brand, Philips, was getting very early life failures, up to 3 out of 4 in a year, not the 15,000 hours advertised. You can still get 100 watt bulbs through Amazon at about a dollar a piece with 1,500 hour life and 1,530 lumens vs 1,600. I'm ahead $1.98 which gets me about 165 hours of burn time. So, at $0.12/kW-hr, 15,000 hours is $180 for the incandescents and $28.80 for the LED. On an equal life basis it looks like $190 for incandescents and $40.78 for the LED. So, break-even on LED's would be about 12 LED lamps. So, if life is even comparable to incandescent, at $11.98 a pop you're ahead on power cost alone. Don't know about dimmables though. My dimmers are old school, I don't think the LED's would like them.

 

[K8MHZ]

Right now, the only incandescents I have are on motion detectors that have soft start. One is an outside light with PAR bulbs, the other over the foyer. All the rest are LED's and a couple CFLs. I really like the LEDs.

 

[peter d]

I finally jumped on the LED bandwagon. As they always say, never buy the first model year of a vehicle and I applied the same logic to LED's. Now that it's been a while and the industry is solidly in the LED direction, I feel confident using and installing them.

 

[ptonsparky]

I have incandescent lamps in the front porch fixtures that have been there eight years. Rarely On and on a dimmer besides.

Mixed reviews on the CFLs. Most have lasted over 4 years, some failed in a few days. I've replaced all the POS CFLs that I had in recessed cans with the LED trim. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Those CFLs were terrible and expensive to boot.