EM Fixtures

horsegoer

Senior Member
Have you guys ever seen EM/NL fixtures that are fed from an EM panel which is feed from a generator still require an EM ballast? THanks.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Is the panel and generator really an emergency generator or could it be a standby generator?

What other types of loads does this panel supply?
 

pete m.

Senior Member
How many transfer switches are after the generator?

If you only have one transfer switch that feeds loads other than those "essential for safety to human life" then the exit / emergency lights would have to be "individual unit equipment".

Pete
 

ron

Senior Member
Have you guys ever seen EM/NL fixtures that are fed from an EM panel which is feed from a generator still require an EM ballast? THanks.
Most generator projects that I design are Article 702 and would still require batteries at the EM fixture.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Have you guys ever seen EM/NL fixtures that are fed from an EM panel which is feed from a generator still require an EM ballast? THanks.
Since these are generator backed up NL (night lights) the additional battery is likely a design issue not a requirement. You would need to know if the system is covered under Article 700 or 702. Article 701 has been deleted from the NYC Electrical Code.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Is the panel and generator really an emergency generator or could it be a standby generator?

What other types of loads does this panel supply?
Just lighting. What is the difference between a standby or em genset?:? THanks.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Since these are generator backed up NL (night lights) the additional battery is likely a design issue not a requirement. You would need to know if the system is covered under Article 700 or 702. Article 701 has been deleted from the NYC Electrical Code.
Thanks.
 

pete m.

Senior Member
I think what Ron is trying to say is that 702 covers optional standby... meaning not essential to human safety and batterys would be required in the exit lights.

A article 700 install would only be there to serve loads that are essential to human safety... hence the batterys would not be required for the exit lights if it were an actual 700 install.

Pete
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with Pete.

It might help if you read the scopes.

First emergency
700.1 Scope. The provisions of this article apply to the
electrical safety of the installation, operation, and maintenance
of emergency systems consisting of circuits and
equipment intended to supply, distribute, and control electricity
for illumination, power, or both, to required facilities
when the normal electrical supply or system is interrupted.
Emergency systems are those systems legally required
and classed as emergency by municipal, state, federal, or
other codes, or by any governmental agency having jurisdiction.
These systems are intended to automatically supply
illumination, power, or both, to designated areas and equipment
in the event of failure of the normal supply or in the
event of accident to elements of a system intended to supply,
distribute, and control power and illumination essential
for safety to human life.
Now standby.
702.1 Scope. The provisions of this article apply to the
installation and operation of optional standby systems.
The systems covered by this article consist of those that
are permanently installed in their entirety, including prime
movers, and those that are arranged for a connection to a
premises wiring system from a portable alternate power
supply.

702.2 Definition.
Optional Standby Systems.
Those systems intended to
supply power to public or private facilities or property
where life safety does not depend on the performance of the
system. Optional standby systems are intended to supply
on-site generated power to selected loads either automatically
or manually.
 

ron

Senior Member
I have my code book and don't see where that is called for.
As the other guys mentioned, that an option standby generator does not qualify it for EM use like a 700 generator. So I don't get to use it for EM lighting. However, it makes the install so much easier, that the addition of batteries at EM lights is not a big deal.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
I think what Ron is trying to say is that 702 covers optional standby... meaning not essential to human safety and batterys would be required in the exit lights.

A article 700 install would only be there to serve loads that are essential to human safety... hence the batterys would not be required for the exit lights if it were an actual 700 install.

Pete
THanks. But basically it comes down to what load the generator supplies. Any lighting served by the generator would not need battery packs. Correct? Or just because it is served by the genrator does not mean it is "essential for life saftey"? Thanks.
 

ron

Senior Member
THanks. But basically it comes down to what load the generator supplies. Any lighting served by the generator would not need battery packs. Correct? Or just because it is served by the generator does not mean it is "essential for life safety"? Thanks.
Your second sentence is correct.

Article 700 generators and loads require special characteristics, handling and separation from 702 loads, so just because it is fed by a generator doesn't mean EM lights don't need batteries.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
The genset feeds a 800a panel that feeds a few em panels. THese em panels feed a few HVAC. One EM panel feeds "exits & em" lights. So the lights on the drawings are just "em" and some are "em/nl".
 

pete m.

Senior Member
The genset feeds a 800a panel that feeds a few em panels. THese em panels feed a few HVAC. One EM panel feeds "exits & em" lights. So the lights on the drawings are just "em" and some are "em/nl".
From what you describe this would be a 702 install. Your exit lights and egress lighting would need batterys.

Pete
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
From what you describe this would be a 702 install. Your exit lights and egress lighting would need batterys.

Pete
I don't understand why batterieds are needed if they are feed from an EM source? Aren't batteries required where the lights are feed from a normal source so they stay lit?
 

USMC1302

Senior Member
Your exit and egress lighting needs to remain on in case of power failure. How fast will the genset pick-up the load? The batteries can provide that power until the genset takes over. If that's wrong, someone please correct me.
 

pete m.

Senior Member
I don't understand why batterieds are needed if they are feed from an EM source? Aren't batteries required where the lights are feed from a normal source so they stay lit?
It happens almost all the time... people will say "emergency generator". I do it myself sometimes but what must be understood is that I would guess the majority of the generator installs are not actually "emergency" as article 700 is concerned.

From what you described you do not have a article 700 installation. You have an installation that would be 702.

If your install is 702 it cannot be the sole power source for equipment that is essential for the safety to human life. That is why you would need batterys (or some other acceptable power source) for the exit and egress lighting.

Pete
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
I don't understand why batterieds are needed if they are feed from an EM source? Aren't batteries required where the lights are feed from a normal source so they stay lit?
You first need to define the EM source as Article 700 or 702. Since these circuits contain EM/NL that presumably burn 24/7 I would say that they're used for egress and are more likely 700 rather than 702. Maybe Ron can chime in on the use of EM/NL's in NYC.
 
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