EMF Questions

[silverbk]

I'm not sure if this is the correct section to post these questions, but here it goes.

I have a customer that is complaining of EMF, she has her own gauss meter and has measured elevated fields in her apartments. She has tracked the cause down to the downstairs neighbor's lights.

We will have limited access to the neighbor's apartment to try to mitigate the problem.

What should I look for first?
What can I do to mitigate the EMF?
Are there certain types of wiring methods or splices that cause elevated EMF?

If this repair fails to solve the problem,is there a preferred shielding system that can be used as an alternative?

 

[bphgravity]

Re: EMF Questions

Does this person even have the education and training to know how to use and evaluate the results of the readings taken by the metering equipment she owns?

Two issues come to mind. One, make sure all circuit conductors including the egc's for each branch circuit are installed together. Separation of conductors will raise EM fields. Two, check all neutral (grounded) and grounding connections. Make sure there are no improper grounded to grounding connections. I also believe certain ground loops will create EM fields.

You may want to PM one of the moderators here on the Forum. Karl Riley is an EMF and related issue expert.

On a side note, here is an interesting article on the issue of EM fields:

EM Field Article

 

[silverbk]

Re: EMF Questions

I would say that she's about as trained as I am. I'm an electrician 15 years and I'm just purchasing my first EMF/ELF meter.

I got into this from being sick from working at the WTC in NYC. I had to hire a consultant to take a look at my new home, now that mold and air quality are major concerns for me. I never thought it would lead to business oppurtunities.

Thanks for the article, when I get in there I will look for anything and everything obvious, rewiring is out of the question as this is a finished high end home. BX wiring is required in this building, so I will concentrate on the splicing, and grounding methods.

 

[tom baker]

Re: EMF Questions

Silverbk: one of our moderators, Karl, is an expert on EMF and can help you if you will PM him. I have a book called Silencing the Fields that was recommended by Mike Holt, on EMF reduction and testers

 

[karl riley]

Re: EMF Questions

I answered the private message. The cause is usually 2-conductor travelers instead of 3. Usually pulling a third wire or new cable is necessary. Jiffy fix is disconnect one switch and be sure both hot and neutral run to the remaining switch, diconnecting the neutral at the other switch.

Using a 3-axis gaussmeter takes no skill. The only thing you have to tell people is to measure where it counts: where people sit or lie. Makes no sense to jam it up against a source and quote the high reading. I usually stay a foot or so away from walls when measuring.

Karl

 

[karl riley]

Re: EMF Questions

And about the book Silencing the Fields. I know the physicist who wrote it. I respect his knowledge about power line sources, since that was the focus of the research he helped with originally. I find that he does not seem to be familiar with NEC or internal wiring questions, and he seems to think that grounding to water pipes is an essential safety measure (I guess in case you loose a neutral). I am not sure he knows the function of the grounding electrode, since he does not clearly state what it does and does not do. This is necessary since there is so much misunderstanding here.

My argument about water pipe redundancy is that I want to see the symptoms when the neutral starts to go bad. It usually happens through corrosion and you will see the voltage imbalance and have it corrected by the utility. The water pipe may substitute and mask the bad neutral. I would rather it not be masked.

Karl

 

[petersonra]

Re: EMF Questions

As long as it causes her no problems (such as poor TV reception), why does she even care? There are plenty of things to worry about that actually are real problems, but a little stray EM is not one of them.

 

[silverbk]

Re: EMF Questions

Thank you gentlemen for your quick responses.

This client is a millionaire (old money) in a very high end Manhattan building, she has already hired a healthy home consultant. Her goal is to make the apartment as healthy as possible.

 

[karl riley]

Re: EMF Questions

Bob, I don't know if you have followed the health research over the years. You sound very sure of your opinion. Based on?

The World Health Organization cancer research branch (IARC) found after a lengthy review of the largest studies that 4 mG is associated with a doubling of childhood leukemia. The lady in question was measuring 100 mG.

What is the basis for resentment towards a person who is personally concerned about this issue? Something to think about and ask oneself. The answer may be revealing.

Karl

 

[petersonra]

Re: EMF Questions

Are these the same people that believe humans are responsible for global warming (even if it is not happening)? I am always a bit suspicious of the luddites amongst us.

 

[brian john]

Re: EMF Questions

On EMF

I was just recently contacted by a Fungsway (SP)
expert she told me the EMF was upsetting the karma
of her client and wants me to correct the problem.

I told her I could correct the problem but could not guarantee the Fungsway.

On a related topic, we just billed a client for 8 men 10 hours twice (two Sundays 160 hours) for correcting, downstream neutral ground issues. The ground current level was sufficient enough to trip the Ground Fault relay (set too low 200 amps Inst) on the 4000 amp main switch. The problems were mostly related to 4 wire BX utilized for a 480VAC 3 phase AC units at the panel the white conductor was tied to the neutral termination bar and at the load it was tapped green and grounded (DUH). The rest were neutral to ground connections related to cutting of the neutral insulation when installing the BX. A real pain to locate. Also found several grounded neutral termination bars in the panels (no screw a bond jumper was installed) and several EGC's on the neutral termination bar. This building was rewired in the last 5 years. This building was wired by a reputable electrical contractor.


While I am not against making money, this type of work is unnecessary if the original job had been completed properly. It is my belief (from experience) most electricians have not a clue about the problem with downstream grounded neutrals.

 

[silverbk]

Re: EMF Questions

What is Feng Shui?

Feng Shui, literally means wind and water. It is an ancient Chinese study of the natural environment. Feng Shui can determine the best or most favorable location for anyone and assist that person to avoid their worst or least desirable location in any environment. This environment can be at the office, home, or any place that they are at. Feng Shui makes the determination based on the year the individual is born, the environment surrounding them, and through the movements of the solar system.

Throughout ancient China, classical Feng Shui was a closely guarded discipline used as a tool to ensure the good health, wealth, and power of the imperial dynasties. The keepers of this secret knowledge were the Feng Shui masters, the highly respected scientists and astronomers who were charged with sustaining the good fortune and prosperity of the royal court.

These masters of Chinese geomancy were very selective of their prot?g?es and extremely wary of sharing their Feng Shui knowledge with any outsider. As a result, few who claimed to be Feng Shui masters even knew the basic theories, which meant even fewer could practice with proficiency.

To this day, Feng Shui charlatans continue to shroud their ignorance in cloaks of mystery and ritual. They take a "shotgun" approach to prescribing wind Chimes and mirrors, embellishing their charade with some incense and prayer.

Actually, a classical Feng Shui reading involves no guesswork. Every building has unique energy characteristics that need to be individually addressed, so be wary of practitioners who offer fixed or occult "cures". Their prescribed remedies may actually do more harm than good.

 

[silverbk]

Re: EMF Questions

The above post was cut and pasted from another site. I never thought of it as a marketing tool.

I hate to bad mouth other electricians, but I have developed an entire business fixing their mistakes.

There could be a Feng Shui certification, I know for a fact that Chinese people, and some white, like Donald Trump truly believe in this and will spend mad money, not to upset their Feng Shui.

 

[karl riley]

Re: EMF Questions

Bob, I go by the results of scientific studies. I find it's more reliable than attitude.

Karl

 

[oceanaradio]

Re: EMF Questions

That's fine Karl, but please don't quote a corrupt and inept organization such as the WHO, and call it science. That leukemia study was a shameful scam designed to forward litigation in Britain regarding residents near HV power lines. They failed, and were appropriately discredited.

The same data get cooked up over and over again, to those unwilling to recognize the plans of WHO, which are not to advance health, but to stop civilization as we know it.

Jack
Virginia Beach, VA

 

[karl riley]

Re: EMF Questions

Jack, I'm not going to follow you into the twilight zone. The IARC review of the major epidemiological studies from years was a massive and thorough one. Their conclusions were judged by other scientists to be conservative.

But I am definitely not going to get involved in conspiracy theories.

Karl

 

[karl riley]

Re: EMF Questions

I should add that it really is not appropriate to debate the health issue on this forum. I try to only respond when someone says there is nothing to it, but even that is not necessary.

The only reason EMF is on this forum is that elevated magnetic fields in a building are mainly due to NEC violations, which of course address fire and shock. There is a percentage due to required grounding to water pipes and CATV sheaths, etc., but remedies can be discussed within the Code allowances.

A small percentage are due to external power lines or service drops, and that may be of interest on this forum, since electricians may be asked to advise about those situations. At least it is of interest technically, and we have Charlie and others to educate us.

So if someone is measuring 100 mG in a building (not up against an appliance) then it usually means that there is a Code violation in a circuit, and that is relevant to this forum.

Karl