Empty panelboard, working space required?

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Todd0x1

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If there is a panelboard that was installed for future expansion and has nothing in it, the entire deadfront is just solid and no conduits entering it other than its feeder which is off and locked out, does it still need the required front clearance? They want to put a file cabinet infront of it.
 
I would maintain the fact that it has wire in it so that space must be dedicated to the panel in use or not. All someone would have to do is take a lock off and flip a switch and it’s on. Fight for our space don’t give them an inch !
 
Terminator5047 said:
I would maintain the fact that it has wire in it so that space must be dedicated to the panel in use or not. All someone would have to do is take a lock off and flip a switch and it’s on. Fight for our space don’t give them an inch !
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But if it has no breakers in it and nowhere to put any (its a Eaton PRL4 with all blanks and no breaker hardware) then its just a box with a feeder going to it no?
 
Some are too picky. If not in use but set up for potential future use I'd say furnishings aren't a problem they can always be moved somewhat easily if needed later on but maybe don't build or affix something rather permanent that violates the space in question.
 
kwired said:
Some are too picky. If not in use but set up for potential future use I'd say furnishings aren't a problem they can always be moved somewhat easily if needed later on but maybe don't build or affix something rather permanent that violates the space in question.
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Give a man an inch he takes a mile next thing you know every pane had a file cabinet in front of it
 
Terminator5047 said:
Give a man an inch he takes a mile next thing you know every pane had a file cabinet in front of it
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Can't remember the last time I've gone into a store to do service that it didn't take half an hour of moving dollies and carts to get to the electrical panels. Got one customer I do a lot of work for who insists on putting a China hutch in front of the panel, it doesn't move easily, and afraid of breaking some fancy porcelain everytime got to get into the panelboard. Or the tripping over mop and broom handles as well as boxes to get to the breakers. Tell them but it does no good, it's an all too convenient space for storage (for them).
AFA the dead panel (never serviced) but sounds as if there is a feeder going into it, remove the panel if they need storage, it just sets a bad precedence. But they will do whatever they will do, just don't condone it.
 
Fred B said:
Can't remember the last time I've gone into a store to do service that it didn't take half an hour of moving dollies and carts to get to the electrical panels. Got one customer I do a lot of work for who insists on putting a China hutch in front of the panel, it doesn't move easily, and afraid of breaking some fancy porcelain everytime got to get into the panelboard. Or the tripping over mop and broom handles as well as boxes to get to the breakers. Tell them but it does no good, it's an all too convenient space for storage (for them).
AFA the dead panel (never serviced) but sounds as if there is a feeder going into it, remove the panel if they need storage, it just sets a bad precedence. But they will do whatever they will do, just don't condone it.
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Exactly
 
Todd0x1 said:
If there is a panelboard that was installed for future expansion and has nothing in it, the entire deadfront is just solid and no conduits entering it other than its feeder which is off and locked out, does it still need the required front clearance? They want to put a file cabinet infront of it.
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If I recall correctly panel boards are required to have working space regardless of whether you will ever get in it or not. Some things are only required to have space if you will work on it live.
 
Fred B said:
Can't remember the last time I've gone into a store to do service that it didn't take half an hour of moving dollies and carts to get to the electrical panels.
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I have been in many warehouses where the panels had all of the proper code clearances, enforced by fencing and bollards. However there was no pathway to get to the panel working space without removing scores of skids and even racking.
 
Fred B said:
Can't remember the last time I've gone into a store to do service that it didn't take half an hour of moving dollies and carts to get to the electrical panels. Got one customer I do a lot of work for who insists on putting a China hutch in front of the panel, it doesn't move easily, and afraid of breaking some fancy porcelain everytime got to get into the panelboard. Or the tripping over mop and broom handles as well as boxes to get to the breakers. Tell them but it does no good, it's an all too convenient space for storage (for them).
AFA the dead panel (never serviced) but sounds as if there is a feeder going into it, remove the panel if they need storage, it just sets a bad precedence. But they will do whatever they will do, just don't condone it.
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That is what I see all the time. EI asked this one place to paint lines on the floor to indicate where things can and can't be stored. Maybe was six months and they ignored them.

I too won't encourage them to use that space but won't say much if anything as long as it is items that are not too difficult to move.
 
petersonra said:
If I recall correctly panel boards are required to have working space regardless of whether you will ever get in it or not. Some things are only required to have space if you will work on it live.
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I'm of the opinion that it is technically not a panel-board if it has no breakers in it.

I envision the feeder conductors landing on lugs, and no breakers or other wires.

It's just a large junction box housing wires that could be labeled "for future use."
 
LarryFine said:
I'm of the opinion that it is technically not a panel-board if it has no breakers in it.

I envision the feeder conductors landing on lugs, and no breakers or other wires.

It's just a large junction box housing wires that could be labeled "for future use."
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The problem is it’s UL listed use is a panel so therefore it’s a panel not a j-box. Thus requiring it to have working clearances
 
I guess it depends on whether it's a panel bored or not. I think if it has the guts of a panel board inside the enclosure regardless of whether it has any breakers or not it is probably a panel board. The enclosure itself is just an enclosure it's not listed as anything other than an enclosure.
 
petersonra said:
I guess it depends on whether it's a panel bored or not. I think if it has the guts of a panel board inside the enclosure regardless of whether it has any breakers or not it is probably a panel board. The enclosure itself is just an enclosure it's not listed as anything other than an enclosure.
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I agree take the guts out and then cap the wires off and it’s a j box
 
A breaker panel requires ready access to operate the breakers.

Why would a panel with no breakers require ready access? :unsure:
 
LarryFine said:
A breaker panel requires ready access to operate the breakers.

Why would a panel with no breakers require ready access? :unsure:
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I think you are conflating the rule with the reason for the rule. It seems to me if the item is listed as a panel board, the the clearance rules apply.
 
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