EMT Vs RMC ?

[AmmarAbdou]

Hi,

We are working in a Hospital renovation project as a main contractor, and the consultant requested to replace all the exposed EMT in the Basement Floor and Roof with RMC, although in our opinion, the EMT will not face a severe physical damage and is not used as a support. (NEC 2017 358.12(1)).

with your experience, is RMC required by NEC for Basements and roof decks? or is that even logic?

and how to settle this with the consultant ?

Regards,
Ammar M. I.

 

[LarryFine]

and how to settle this with the consultant ?

Talk to the one who will have to pay for the difference in cost.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Talk to the one who will have to pay for the difference in cost.

yep. also a good way to deconsult a "consultant".

the OP doesn't say where this is, and under what code this is being performed,
if any, so that muddies the response possible.

 

[kwired]

EMT could even be overkill, this is a design issue more than a code issue.

 

[hbiss]

Replace existing or replace in the scope of work?

Is either of these areas subject to corrosion? I probably wouldn't want to run EMT around outdoors on a roof.

-Hal

 

[AmmarAbdou]

EMT could even be overkill, this is a design issue more than a code issue.

Thanks foe for your reply.

Please note that all the conduits are exposed and not concealed in concrete or masonry.

 

[AmmarAbdou]

Talk to the one who will have to pay for the difference in cost.

Unfortunately, i am the one who will pay for that HUGE difference :?

 

[AmmarAbdou]

Replace existing or replace in the scope of work?

Is either of these areas subject to corrosion? I probably wouldn't want to run EMT around outdoors on a roof.

-Hal

Thanks for your reply.

Our scope is to remove the old systems ( power and low current systems) and install the new ones.

We aready did this with EMT, and after that the consultant requested to replace all the EMT with RMC.


And btw, even if the area is subject to corrosion, EMT is suitable for that.

 

[AmmarAbdou]

yep. also a good way to deconsult a "consultant".

the OP doesn't say where this is, and under what code this is being performed,
if any, so that muddies the response possible.

Thanks for your reply.

In the project electrical specification and under the raceways section it says that:

Interior Raceways: Raceways for wires inside the building, recessed in concrete
and CMU, shall be rigid UPVC conduit conforming to SASO 254/255 or Class IV to
SASO 14/15 or Schedule 40 to ASTM D 1785 with proper type of fittings such as
bell ends or terminal adapters. Rigid UPVC conduits for use in wet walls and
other locations shall comply with the requirements of NEC 352. Raceways for
wires inside drywalls and above suspended ceiling (except where cable trays are
shown) shall be EMT conforming to ANSI C80.3 or equivalent standards, with
screw fittings. All surface-mounted/exposed raceways shall be rigid galvanized
steel conduit conforming to SASO 1011 or ANSI C80.1 or BS 1387. Fittings for
steel conduits shall· conform to ANSI C80.4 or equivalent standards.

This does not make any sense!

 

[LarryFine]

We aready did this with EMT, and after that the consultant requested to replace all the EMT with RMC.

To me, that defines a CHANGE, and I would submit a separate additional price for complying with that new request.

There is no way you should bear one penny of the cost for additional labor or materials not in the original contract.

 

[hbiss]

Thanks for your reply.

In the project electrical specification and under the raceways section it says that:



This does not make any sense!

Hold on! Are you saying that you had the specifications originally and decided the part about using rigid galvanized steel made no sense, so you went ahead and used EMT instead? So now they are holding you to the spec and want you to replace the EMT you installed with rigid galvanized?

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Uh-oh.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Hold on! Are you saying that you had the specifications originally and decided the part about using rigid galvanized steel made no sense, so you went ahead and used EMT instead? So now they are holding you to the spec and want you to replace the EMT you installed with rigid galvanized?

-Hal

it appears that is the case. i was under the impression, for some reason, that it
was *existing* conduit that the "consultant" wanted changed out.

looks like they substituted emt for rigid, and installed it, when rigid was specified.
bummer. -7 points, and miss a turn. hopefully they didn't already pull wire.

well, they are down the thinwall, and fittings, and labor. hopefully it's not a
city block square hospital with 39 package units piped, etc.

edit:

All surface-mounted/exposed raceways...

all exposed raceways, everywhere. not just roof and basement. everywhere.

and if it's a hospital, OSHPOD rears its ugly head. with de regeur oshpod inspector.

how on earth did they get it piped before someone said something?

 

[sparky1118]

Unfortunately, i am the one who will pay for that HUGE difference :?

Why would you have to eat that?


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[kwired]

Why would you have to eat that?


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Post 9, he did not install what was specified. If he can talk them out of it he saves $$, but it was in the specifications.

 

[sameguy]

And we wonder why our bids are too high by following the specs..
Looks like you need to follow the directions given; are you paying your men the proper wage/ benefits per the rules?

 

[kwired]

And we wonder why our bids are too high by following the specs..
Looks like you need to follow the directions given; are you paying your men the proper wage/ benefits per the rules?

Give them two bids, one that clearly states it is per the specs and one that clearly states is per different specs, if approved. Owners may or may not know they have options, some may want to follow designers recommendations regardless.

 

[oldsparky52]

You might want to consider crediting the hospital with 100% of the savings you hoped to profit by substituting EMT for rigid. You have already incurred the cost of installing the EMT. Actually, you would be money ahead to credit them the savings and 50% of the cost to replace it.

Did you pull the conductors yet?

Is this your 1st spec job?

 

[AmmarAbdou]

Hi,
Thanks to you all for your replies.

Kindly note the following:
0-The project is not in the United States, it is in Saudi Arabia, and we are trying to strictly follow the NEC code, as the project specs is actually a general electrical specs and very old.

1-The project electrical specs is turned ON or OFF as per the consultant mode! (which means, sometimes he asks to apply the NEC, and sometimes he asks to apply the project specs!)

2-We already did more than what is required in the project specs in other sections in general, because our goal is to meet the NEC 2017 and its latest updates.

3-My Question was not about following the project specs, my question was about replacing the EMT with RMC ( i.e. why I should replace? ), and when I asked the consultant for the reason he said " it is in the project specs".

4-To be more specific, if you where the person who is writing the project electrical code, would you require RMC to be installed in all the exposed locations? and if yes, then why? what is the NEC article no.? (and that is my core question, and sorry, I should have made that clear in the first place).

5-We did not pull the conductors yet.

Regards,
Ammar M. I.

 

[kwired]

There likely is no NEC reason that EMT isn't acceptable.

Specifications said to use RMC, one must ask the designer why they chose that when other items are likely code compliant.

Then you said those specifications get turned off and on - sounds like a mess to me, what purpose do specifications serve if they get turned off and on like that?