Enclosure "listed and labeled" for purpose

[Michael Kennedy]

In Article 680 (swimming pool, etc. installations) there is a statement that the GFCI enclosure must be listed and labled for the purpose, and be: 1. equipped with threaded entries or a nonmetallic hub, 2) constructed of copper, brass, or corrosion-resistant material approved by the authority having jurisdiction, and 3) provide electrical continuity between all metal conduit and the grounding (bonding) terminals of the enclosure. Mike Holt's comment to this in his free PDF download ovreview of Article 680 is..... "See Article 100 for the definitions of "labeled and listed". This is still not clear to me.

I can't find any GFIC enclosures that are specifically listed for use in swimming pool applications....is that required? Aren't outdoor panels made by GE, SquareD, Cutler Hammer etc. that we all use everyday suitable for use as the subpanel for a pool?

Mike

 

[Flex]

I dont think there looking for pool specific boxes for the gfci receptacle. Unless your talking about a pool light?




edit* Or maybe I am misreading altogether. Are you talking about an outdoor subpanel?

 

[Michael Kennedy]

yes..sub panel and light

yes..sub panel and light

Flex.....

Thank you for this information! Maybe you can help me here??

Yes...I am talking about an outdoor sub panel and a light.

Article 680 (Figure 680-20) shows that you can go directly from a light to a sub panel as long as you have the #8 equipotential bonding wire coming along with it......(the deck box is not manditory according to 680).

Question 1. If the light goes directly to a GFIC in the sub panel is there any code violation?

Question 2. What happens to the #8 equipotential bonding wire that is coming into the sub panel along with the light wires? Does it get tied to the other parts of the equipotential bonding grid there inside the sub panel....as it does if you do have a deck box?

Question 3. When you tie all of equipotential bonding grid together without a deck box where does this occur if not in the panel?

You could bring #8 wire from the rebar, light nitche, motor, heater, etc. all together, but Article 680 is not clear where these tie together unless you have a deck box.

No matter where you bring them together there is continuity between the equipotential bonding lug on the motor, heater cabinet, light, etc. and the ground (bonding) terminals which means the equipotential bonding and ground (bonding) are all connected in their own right anyway.

Why would a person drag a # 8 wire from the rebar to the light, another one from the pump, another one from the heater, etc. etc. as shown in Figure 680-22, instead of a single one from the rebar to a junction box where it tied to all of the others....hence making the same equipotential network?

The installation I am working on has the heater and pump 200 feet from the pool....hence I would have to run 5 or 6 #8 wires from the rebar to the various members of the equipotential bonding parts. Can I tie the light to the rebar and then bring that #8 wire to the service area where the pump, heater etc. are? If the answer is yes, where do I tie these together?

Thank you for your thouhts!

Mike

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Question 1. If the light goes directly to a GFIC in the sub panel is there any code violation?

I don't see how you can meet the requirements of 680.23(B)(2) & 680.24(A)(1) if you wire directly to a sub panel.
I believe there are enclosures that are specifically listed for swimming pools but I have never seen them. I have never heard of a sub panel for swimming pools but that does not mean they don't exist.

Question 2. What happens to the #8 equipotential bonding wire that is coming into the sub panel along with the light wires? Does it get tied to the other parts of the equipotential bonding grid there inside the sub panel....as it does if you do have a deck box?

The equipotential bonding wire does not get connected to the sub panel. It's only connects all the metal parts of the pool to keep them at the same potential.

Question 3. When you tie all of equipotential bonding grid together without a deck box where does this occur if not in the panel?

It does not go into a deck box. The pool light bond wire gets connected to the deck box along with the EGC.

You could bring #8 wire from the rebar, light nitche, motor, heater, etc. all together, but Article 680 is not clear where these tie together unless you have a deck box.

The deck box is for the pool light only. The epb is done as I described earlier

 

[Michael Kennedy]

Thank you Dennis...

According to 680.24 (B) "Transformer or Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Enclosure".... a deck box for the light is not required because it says you can go directly to a GFCI enclosure from the luminaire forming shell (exactly where the equipotential #8 is bonded to the forming shell) with conduit. It says that you must "provide electical continuity between all metal conduit and the grounding (bonding terminals of the enclosure)". If this enclosure is not a sub-panel that they are talking about that holds the GFCI breakers then what is it? Also even if you just tie all of the metal parts together with #8 as shown in Fig. 680-22 the equipotential bonding network is still tied to ground via the motor case, the heater case the luminarie metal conduit, etc. So no matter what you do there is still continuity between the equipotential bonding network and the ground bonding network.

Just as you have pointed out 680.26 says... "The 8 AWG of larger solid copper equipotential (stray voltage) bonding conductor (680.26C) isn't required to extend to or be attached to any panelboard, service equipment, or an electrode." The key words here are "isn't required". It never says can't be!

Also I would like to know what kind of a box that I should use for 4 indivdulal plug in GFCI breakers (as the code requires a seperate GFCI breaker for each piece of equipment) pump, heater, luminarie, blower. I have never seen a breaker box marked speifically for swimming pools. Is there a specific box that I don't know about for this application.

Thank you for the info. and please let me know your thoughts on this.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[chris kennedy]

We use these. Intermatic.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

There are subpanels called "pool panels" made by GE (Midwest) and others designed specifically to accomodate the unique requirements of typical pool and pool/spa installations. Aside from being weathertight they include some added bells and whistles like KOs for the installation of switches, and a place to insert the guts from 2 Tork timers. I have never heard of piping a wet niche directly to a panel, as that run is almost always interrupted by a deck box and a switch. The pool code has always been interpreted differently by varying jusridictions. I know when I did them one summer each and every township had it's own particular "like to sees." This was before the equipotential bonding grid came to be, where a #6 solid was run around the perimeter instead and bonded in 4 places along the pool minimum, any signifigant metallic object within 10' of the water edge, as well as the cups for the slide, diving board, railing, and each motor. In every jurisdiction save one, this #6 ALWAYS went back to the main panel.

 

[vinster888]

you can take the #8 to each piece of equipment and tap with a split bolt and run one wire all the way to the pool deck.