Engineers?

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Njonescontracting

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Location
Saint Louis, MO
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Electrical Contractor
Today I had an engineer come out from the Local POCO. (AMEREN) They stated they had to come out and look at the job prior to disconnect/reconnect. I didn't argue. This lady was the least knowledgeable engineer I have ever met in the feild. She asked what wire I would be using to the meter and off the meter to the panel. I told her 2/0. She said... "I'm not sure that is right" and "oh does that mean 200 amps" ... Regarding min height for drip loop she said as long as it is out of the way I don't mind and the installers will not check. After that, she told me she forgot her tape measure at home. So, eh just say 3 ft. That should be good...which it would not. Then 2-2-2-4 SE cable also threw her off. From there I decided to throw around a few more trade names for items and it really threw her off. Not to mention the POCO provides all contractors a "service manual" which is often a bit vague in terms of what the will and will not allow.. But seeing as she literally said numerous things contradicting the "manual" I guess it is up to us. Do you guys often encounter this?

The best part is. She told me I have to run a 100amp meter socket for 100amp panel......the POCO only approves 200amp meter sockets for a main panel.
 
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Unless an engineer is lucky enough to have family in the trade, and have been used as a helper or gofer to boot, he or she will not have acquired any useful and relevant information related to the nuts and bolts of electrical installation. The possible exception would be a semester or two as an intern for a company with the relevant focus. I'm sure there are power engineering curricula out there, but it's doubtful - based on my experience as a chemical engineering student and subsequent stint in the chemical industry - that any nitty-gritty knowledge will be acquired.
 
Our POCO has what is called a Staking Engineer. Way different from their EEs in the office.

When my daughter started out in the KC area, she was sent to the Sprint Center. Way over her experience level. Should never have happened and she knew it. She found a different employer.
 
I once had a POCO engineer say they had never heard of a high-leg service with the high leg smaller than the other conductors.
 
Engineers have a common trait, for " overlooking the obvious ". Obviously most electrical workers have hands on experience and knowledge gained work experience.
Good electrical engineers have a broad range of experience and most have field experience and some commissioning experience.
Electrical engineering is a math base and when you have learned the math you can understand the simple applications. The NEC on the other end of electrical engineering is complex given the many variables involved. A good electrical engineer must know the NEC code and all the other standards, NEMA, ANSIE, IEEE to name the basic few. How many electrical engineers know what a " MOTOR LOAD FACTOR " is , as one example. I am an experienced electrical engineer and i joined this forum to learn from you all.
 
steve66 said:
POCO's and other employers are allowed to use the term "engineer" pretty loosely.

Kind of like everyone that works for a bank is a "vice president".
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There is a reason why banks have a lot of VPs and other such titles. There are some legal requirements for who at a bank can execute a loan on behalf of the bank. It is much simpler if they create a whole bunch of bank officers. It also supposedly makes customers feel they are getting attention from management when really most loan officers at most banks are close to a clerical function.
 
JEFF MILLAR said:
Engineers have a common trait, for " overlooking the obvious ". Obviously most electrical workers have hands on experience and knowledge gained work experience.
Good electrical engineers have a broad range of experience and most have field experience and some commissioning experience.
Electrical engineering is a math base and when you have learned the math you can understand the simple applications. The NEC on the other end of electrical engineering is complex given the many variables involved. A good electrical engineer must know the NEC code and all the other standards, NEMA, ANSIE, IEEE to name the basic few. How many electrical engineers know what a " MOTOR LOAD FACTOR " is , as one example. I am an experienced electrical engineer and i joined this forum to learn from you all.
Click to expand...


What is motor load factor? Sounds familiar but my brain is stalling.
 
Legally in this state (CA and WA also) you cant call an employee an 'engineer' unless they are licensed.
When a friend of mine went thru all the stress hassle (and debt) to finally get his masters in engineering degree, passed the first exam, worked under an engineer for years, took the PE got his stamp, worked many more jobs to finally get a job at a local POCO and found out the people whom had business cards that said 'staking' or xyz whatever 'engineer' were not in fact engineers at all.
They were just meter readers or linman that worked their way into that position, they go thru some basic traning on meter placement and POCO rules and filter out all the real questions for the engineers.
He complained and the POCO changed all the business cards to 'distribution technician' or something.
LOL
 
Njonescontracting said:
Today I had an engineer come out from the Local POCO. (AMEREN) They stated they had to come out and look at the job prior to disconnect/reconnect. I didn't argue. This lady was the least knowledgeable engineer I have ever met in the feild. She asked what wire I would be using to the meter and off the meter to the panel. I told her 2/0. She said... "I'm not sure that is right" and "oh does that mean 200 amps" ... Regarding min height for drip loop she said as long as it is out of the way I don't mind and the installers will not check. After that, she told me she forgot her tape measure at home. So, eh just say 3 ft. That should be good...which it would not. Then 2-2-2-4 SE cable also threw her off. From there I decided to throw around a few more trade names for items and it really threw her off. Not to mention the POCO provides all contractors a "service manual" which is often a bit vague in terms of what the will and will not allow.. But seeing as she literally said numerous things contradicting the "manual" I guess it is up to us. Do you guys often encounter this?

The best part is. She told me I have to run a 100amp meter socket for 100amp panel......the POCO only approves 200amp meter sockets for a main panel.
Click to expand...
I’m going to bet you didn’t...
As stated above, the “stakers” are out of the engineering department and as such are mistaken for engineers.
One of ours used to be our meter reader...
All these guys (and gals) do is go out to put the job on paper.
When there is an issue they bring it into the office to an actual engineer.
Their training is usually a one week, maybe two week NESC course, and OJT..
 
tortuga said:
Legally in this state (CA and WA also) you cant call an employee an 'engineer' unless they are licensed.
When a friend of mine went thru all the stress hassle (and debt) to finally get his masters in engineering degree, passed the first exam, worked under an engineer for years, took the PE got his stamp, worked many more jobs to finally get a job at a local POCO and found out the people whom had business cards that said 'staking' or xyz whatever 'engineer' were not in fact engineers at all.
They were just meter readers or linman that worked their way into that position, they go thru some basic traning on meter placement and POCO rules and filter out all the real questions for the engineers.
He complained and the POCO changed all the business cards to 'distribution technician' or something.
LOL
Click to expand...
When I worked for Matheson, we had an office in San Jose. I would occasionally have to go out for client meetings and whatnot. I had to avoid handing out my card, because CA is very strict about this. Even though I was licensed in NJ, because I was not licensed in CA, I could not hand out my card with "PE" at the end of my name. As I recall, appending (NJ) would not have satisfied the good folks in CA. The company didn't think it would be cost effective to print up a batch of cards removing all references to "engineer" since my position was "Senior Engineer".
 
Our local poco is getting nuts! HO tried to get them to come out and stake a new service for his gate and fence charger. They said the meter has to be attached to a building before they would connect! Already have a pedestal built and permitted. Waiting on the final Tuesday. Funny how they will connect to a MH service pole! LOL!
 
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