England Voltage

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jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
:-? Anyone care to take the time to explain the voltage arrangement for residential systems found in England?

Are there two legs of 240 and a neutral such as we have here or is it just one leg of 240 and a neutral in the service panels over there?

Is this system derived from a single phase transformer such as the 120/240 systems here or is it just one winding of 240 with one side being grounded such as in a control voltage in a motor control center here?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

charlie b

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Location
Lockport, IL
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Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
All I can tell you is that when we go to visit our daughter and her family, we bring a transformer/converter, in order to allow us to recharge the laptop, cell phone, shaver, etc. It has three prongs, one of which is an EGC. There is no 120 volt power. So I infer that their distribution system employs a single winding transformer with a 240 volt secondary, and that they ground one leg. That is only my guess, however.
 

dbuckley

Senior Member
British electrical is pretty much one system, which in American terminology you would write as 400/230. Though in practice it's 415/240.

So a house gets one leg of the three phase, so a single phase 240V supply, which (depending on the age of the house) would be rated at 60A, 80A or 100A.

The system is mostly grounded same as the USA; there is a neutral / earth bond at the point of supply, but unlike the USA the "electrical board" (a/k/a the PoCo) supply the earth wire to the installation. Technically this arrangement is know as TN-C-S, read about it on Wikipedia in this article on how to ground electrical systems. However other earthing systems are permitted, with some restrictions.

Because the final voltage is higher, in urban areas transformers are much rarer than in America; there is usually a small brick substation building housing a transformer of several megawatts which feeds a surrounding area. So the distribution is three phase, and each house hangs off just one phase. There is no multi-grounded neutral, so all transformers (single or three phase) have their primary phase to phase, and three phase trannies are thus always delta primaries, and pretty much universally wye secondaries, except for on-site strange transformers.

Any other questions please ask, theres a few of us familiar with UK electricty on here...
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Any other questions please ask, theres a few of us familiar with UK electricty on here...

Thank you for the link as it helped a lot. I was confused about the EGC or as they call it the PE conductor and its point of attachment. :roll:

If I understand correctly most if not all residential services will be a wye three phase with only one phase being used at the dwelling unit and the other two being used elsewhere for other dwelling units.
 

rbalex

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Location
Mission Viejo, CA
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Professional Electrical Engineer
When I was there about thirty years ago, it was a common practice for a given residence to receive two phases of a three phase system with one L‑N supplying most of the loads and the other L‑N supplying an electric water heater. The local transformer would feed multiple residences, but they all had their water heaters on the same phase to neutral. This permitted the utility to kill all the water heaters on a particular transformer fairly easily on its secondary. Throughout the community, the various transformers used different phases for the water heaters so the overall system was still balanced. That way a local mandatory “black-out” didn’t necessarily require killing all loads. (Since tea was never made from water from the heater it was ok)
 

dbuckley

Senior Member
Thank you for the link as it helped a lot. I was confused about the EGC or as they call it the PE conductor and its point of attachment. :roll:
PE is Protective Earth, about the same as the grounding conductor. In TN-C-S you have a combined Protective Earth and Neutral (PEN) conductor, this is normally a concentric cable, with a central thick hot, and many thinner neutrals around it (like a coax) so if you put a spade through it the hot is chopped befopre the last neutral / earth is cut. This type of cable is used for the underground feed from the street distribution to the house (ie just before the bond to the connection block where the earth rod and the water and gas plumbing bonds are connected) to try and stop the "lost neutral" problem.

If I understand correctly most if not all residential services will be a wye three phase with only one phase being used at the dwelling unit and the other two being used elsewhere for other dwelling units.
The cable under the street is three phase (four wire) but an individual dwelling will only have one phase fed to it. The houses are spread equally-ish amongst the three phases to balance it out.

When I was there about thirty years ago, it was a common practice for a given residence to receive two phases of a three phase system with one L‑N supplying most of the loads and the other L‑N supplying an electric water heater.
This arrangement is common in much of Europe, but rare in the UK to the point I've never seen an installation that had two phases for a water heater. I've seen a few that were installed decades back for storage heaters, but only a few. I've also never seen an arragement that had all the water heaters on one phase with remote control. So if you've seen it it must be a local thing in some part of the country.

In New Zealand (where I now live) we have a system that is a crossbreed of UK and American practice, and we do have remote cotrol of electric loads by the PoCo, it uses a thing called "ripple control", whereby a control signal at a couple of hundred hertz is superimposed onto the mains, and there are receivers throught the network that reecieve those control signals. SO street lights are centrally controlled, and my night rate meter for water heating simerlarly is switched on when the PoCo want it, and off when they dont. So they can load shed if required.

I figured perhaps a pic or two might help, so with the help of google image search... Pictures are of ugly installations, but they'll do :)

This shows (3) the incoming supply from the street which goes to the PoCo's main fuse box (1) - this box is sealed by the PoCo, it contains the installation fuse, a neutral link, and the earth point that the PoCo hands to the installation, thats the green wire coming out of the terminal that normally has a cover over it. Next up is item (4) the meter, which is also sealed! (5) labels the "meter tails", which is what the installing electrician leaves dangling for the PoCo to screw into the meter. Item 2 is a consumer unit, a UK name for an integrated main switch and fuse box, in this case an old Wylex unit, which was fitted to just about every house for decades (1960 - 1990 maybe?), right up until the circuit breaker revolution took place.

Note that the contracting electrician has no legal means to isolate the supply prior to the consumer unit, to do that you need to call the PoCo and get them to cut the seal on their fuse and remove it, and seal it all back up again afterwards.

old_fuse_box5.jpg


This picture better illustrates the supply from an overhead thats come in as two wire, bottom left, first the board fuse and next to it the boards neutral block (sealed!) which has the earth wire coming out of it which goes (out of sight of the picture) to the earth block on the bottom right.

This is a dual rate meter installation, where the entire installation is metered at two different rates, so overnight cheaper electricity. Note there is no additional feed for heaters or water tanks, its just two rates for the whole load.

Meter+board.gif


Both of these pictures are of old horrible installations, but I couldn't find a modern picture that shows the same detail... Things have moved on since these pictures!!!
 
I hope I am not stepping in wrong spot but due one of the member asked about the UK system however let me expand little more for the rest of Europe area but specfically my second home in Paris France .,

The normal system voltage is 415Y240 volts at 50 HZ

The power supply to resdential typically can be either three phase or single phase supply however the electric rate will afffect a bit

Due majorty of the French homes pretty much standardized with triphase supply but service entrance size will varies a bit they go small as 9 KW to big as 90+ KW but 18 or 24 KW is the most common size

We can get them by either overhead or underground cable the distubation centre is pretty simauir to the UK as one of the person wrote about the UK system for primary et secondary distubration system both are about the same.

For the codes some of the codes are parallel with NEC and some are not.,

Kitchen area we must have 2 X 20 amp RCD circuits

Bathroom is very strict and we go by " zone " but this rule is changing so the former rules that we only can allowed shaver socket { isolated transfomer that typically about 50 to 70 watt size } but now start to allowed full power 16 amp recepetale but mantory RCD.

Stove yes we do allow both single and three phase supply however.,
we must have local disconnection switch as we called "d?branchez le changement "

Yes we do have lighting circuits and they are on 16 amp and they are optional for RCD

Ring circuits is not legal in France at all.

For earth { grounding } it is very simauir to the USA

In the main breaker we do have master RCD that set for 100 Ma setting the local RCD are set 30 Ma unless feed to the swimming pool area then it will get tighten up a bit it will drop to 10 Ma

Our standard colour codes we have two diffrent colour codes and both are legal with modern codes so here it is

Phase A - Noir { Black }
Phase B - Rouge { Red }
Phase C - Marron { Brown ]
Netual - Bleu { blue }
Earth Vert / Jaune { Green/Yellow }

OR

Phase A- Marron { Brown }
Phase B - Gris { Grey }
Phase C - Noir { Black }
Netural - Bleu { Blue }
Earth - Vert/Jaune { Green/Yellow}

One warning the rest of mainland Europe do have one standard colour as I mention on the chart but for other colours it will really varies a bit.

If more question please do feel free to ask me I will be more than happy to answer it

Merci,Marc
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
:-? Anyone care to take the time to explain the voltage arrangement for residential systems found in England?
Local distribution transformers are typically 400V star (Y) secondary giving 230V line to neutral and this is the single phase supply to (almost) all residences. All domestic appliances, lighting etc. are designed to be fed from 230V single phase. Conductor colours are brown for live, blue for neutral and yelow/green for ground. Frequency is 50Hz.
Receptacles look like this:

Plugandsocket.jpg


The longer pin on the plug is the ground. The holes for live and neutral in the receptacle are guarded by a shutter mechanism which is opened as the ground pin of the plug is inserted. This prevents your 3-year old sticking things in there.

BTW this isn't just for England - the rest of the UK has the same...;)
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
British electrical is pretty much one system, which in American terminology you would write as 400/230. Though in practice it's 415/240.
Yep. Yet another totally unnecessary EU bureaucratic fudge. Like the "harmonised" conductor colours.
 
Besoeker.,

You are very close but we don't use the British standard receptales in France however.,

The voltage is pretty simuair all over the Europe not much differnce at all so I will provide my photo what the French recepteale look like .,

French_Socket_Outlet.jpg


Next is the French plug

power_plug_frde.jpg


Both are rated for 16 amp circuits

Merci,Marc
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
All I can tell you is that when we go to visit our daughter and her family, we bring a transformer/converter, in order to allow us to recharge the laptop, cell phone, shaver, etc.
I'm a little surprised that you need to do that. Most laptop and cell-phone power supplies I've seen are rated for 100-240V 50/60Hz. My shaver is too. Sure, the plug is different but a simple adaptor gets round that.
Things like hair dryers are a bit of a problem but Mrs B has a few spare so that when we have friends and family over from the US, they are covered.
 

Greg1707

Senior Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Business owner Electrical contractor
UK bonding

UK bonding

On a recent trip to the UK I noticed that in the hotel bathrooms the hot and cold water pipes supplying the sink were always bonded together with copper fittings and a green wire. I was told this was done in all bathrooms. Any insight on what would appear to be a very redundant practice?
 

dbuckley

Senior Member
I tend to read this forum by using the "New Posts" link.

The very next thread after this one in the list is entitled "Shower shocked!".

I cant ever recall that happening in the UK (though it undoubtably has) because the concept of bonding is taken seriously. If you bond all your exposed metalworkl together then you dont get potentials between them.
 
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