Equipotential Bond between pool and outside kitchen structure

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Traino Electric

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I am almost finished with an outside kitchen project. Went for final inspection and I was asked to equipotential bond the kitchen structure. I need to dig it back to pool equipment 170 feet away. Inspector stated it needed to be in pipe 18" underground but he will let me get away with 12".
My question is: do I need to protect the #8 solid in a pipe for the distance between kitchen and pool equipment? And does it have to be 18" underground? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of it? It only is needed to bond gutter on outside kitchen structure. And advice on a different plan is also welcomed. Thanks.
 
The equipotential bonding does not need to be in conduit and you can connect to any point on the bonding. I assume the kitchen is within 5' of the pool otherwise this would not be necessary.
 
I agree with the old man moderator.

If it is more then 5 feet from pool it doesn't need bonded at all. If it does need bonded - it can bond to anything that is part of equipotential bonding system.

Your inspector has stock in copper wire company, I guess, maybe even stock in pipe/tubing company as well.:blink:
 
Its the gutter

Its the gutter

The gutter of the kitchen is within 12 feet. And the pool surface is finished. The lease amount of damage is for me to dig. I don't want to, but there is nothing available for me to attach to (bond) without damaging the surface of pool area. I missed it during construction. Inspector told me 18" underground for my distance from gutter at kitchen to pool equipotential ground wire (exposed location by panel) on other side of pool. the pool bond is suppose to be 4" to 6" underground. So I'm I suppose to dig all my future equipotential bond from the pool ring (ring around pool) to equipment location at 18" underground? I don't see that located in code 680 at all. And wouldn't it being placed at 6" underground running next to edge of brick flooring (decking) from kitchen around to pool equipment be safer for faults? Or should I just suck it up and dig it 18" down? This is the only thing holding up my final.

Thank you all for your time to answer me. It is appreciated!
 
Picture or sketch with approx distances would help.

If your saying the only part of the kitchen that is remotely close, the gutter at 12' away, there is no required bonding.
 
Traino Electric said:
?.. And advice on a different plan is also welcomed. ...
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Sounds like the gutter is less than 12 feet above the maximum water level. And less than 5 feet from the waters edge horizontally.
1. Do plastic gutters exist?
2. Do the older structures have gutters (or attics) that run close to the kitchen gutter. Bonding jumper between gutters, then bond the old gutter. (Or snake the bond wire thru the attic.)
3. Drill, tap and lug an exposed piece of rebar, even just the end. I use a 10-32 stainless steel screw and a lug listed UG or CE.
Perfect conditions for this trick to work: Someone has an amazing memory or the right equipment and can locate rebar. The rebar is near the edge of the deck. Dig a hole and chip out concrete from the side, without damaging the deck surface. Remove just enough concrete to expose a small patch of rebar and fit the lug. Drill, tap, lug ... patch the concrete, landscape.
The rebar in a building's foundation would work. But then you have to do the trick twice, coming and going.
4. Screen in the pool.
5. 680.26(B)(7) Exception No. 1: ... a permanent barrier ...
 
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Glennsparky said:
Sounds like the gutter is less than 12 feet above the maximum water level. And less than 5 feet from the waters edge horizontally.
1. Do plastic gutters exist?
2. Do the older structures have gutters (or attics) that run close to the kitchen gutter. Bonding jumper between gutters, then bond the old gutter. (Or snake the bond wire thru the attic.)
3. Drill, tap and lug an exposed piece of rebar, even just the end. I use a 10-32 stainless steel screw and a lug listed UG or CE.
Perfect conditions for this trick to work: Someone has an amazing memory or the right equipment and can locate rebar. The rebar is near the edge of the deck. Dig a hole and chip out concrete from the side, without damaging the deck surface. Remove just enough concrete to expose a small patch of rebar and fit the lug. Drill, tap, lug ... patch the concrete, landscape.
The rebar in a building's foundation would work. But then you have to do the trick twice, coming and going.
4. Screen in the pool.
5. 680.26(B)(7) Exception No. 1: ... a permanent barrier ...
Click to expand...
That might be possibility.
 
The NEC is statewide in Florida and adopted in it's entirety. However, Florida state building codes override some code items. So, check the FBCs.
Otherwise, for the items below, i could not find where 680 amended the general rules. 90.3, chapters 1 through 4 apply.

Traino Electric said:
... the pool bond is suppose to be 4" to 6" underground. So I'm I suppose to dig all my future equipotential bond from the pool ring (ring around pool) to equipment location at 18" underground?...
Click to expand...
680.26.(B)(2)(b) only applies to perimeter surfaces. That means only within three feet of the water's edge. And only if there is no applicable "Structural Reinforcing Steel" and no "Copper Conductor Grid". That is why it is called an "Alternate Means"
Conclusion: For most concrete decks there is no "pool ring (ring around pool) and 4" to 6" doesn't apply to anything else.
Traino Electric said:
... So I'm I suppose to dig all my future equipotential bond from the pool ring (ring around pool) to equipment location at 18" underground? I don't see that located in code 680 at all. And wouldn't it being placed at 6" underground running next to edge of brick flooring (decking) from kitchen around to pool equipment be safer for faults? Or should I just suck it up and dig it 18" down? ...
Click to expand...
If you pulled your permit after January 1, 2018, the 2014 NEC is in effect.

250.102(E)(3) Bonding jumpers or conductors and equipment bonding jumpers shall be installed in accordance with 250.64(A) and (B).

250.64(B), last sentence, "... grounding electrode bonding jumpers shall not be required to comply with 300.5."(Minimum Cover Requirements) The word "grounding" does not rule out your application. Because all of Article 250, Part III is about "Grounding Electrode System and Grounding Electrode Conductor", 250.102(E)(3) specifically means for it to apply as a general rule.

imho, lay the bond wire on the dirt, before the sod goes down. Done.
 
kitchen bond pic.jpg
my question is this...

why is the inspector telling me that my equipotential bond wire needs to be 12" to 18" underground and he wants pipe? this is for the run going from the pool bond around deck to side of kitchen where gutter is closest to the grass.

I understand all pipe needs to be buried at specific deeps, but this is an equipotential bond. shouldn't it be at 4 to 6 inches under earth all the way for extra precautions? or is the inspector right because he is afraid of someone cutting it in the future?

This is the best scenario for this job. Ive looked at all alternatives and it involves damage. I cant damage anything, everything is finished. originally, there wasn't a gutter and now there was upon my final inspection (where I failed for this). I don't have a gutter on my plans, so kitchen contractor must have added it and didn't inform me.

Thank you everyone for information and wanting to help. It is very much appreciated!
 
"... within the twelve foot rule." has already caused enough confusion. Drop a plumb bob to grade (deck) from the edge of the gutter closest to the water's edge. Measure from the bob to the closest water's edge. The gutter has to be bonded only if that measurement is five feet or less. Over five feet and no bonding is required, at any height. Please post this exact measurement so we don't go around in circles.:)

Traino Electric said:
... why is the inspector telling me that my equipotential bond wire needs to be 12" to 18" underground and he wants pipe? this is for the run going from the pool bond around deck to side of kitchen where gutter is closest to the grass.

I understand all pipe needs to be buried at specific deeps, but this is an equipotential bond. shouldn't it be at 4 to 6 inches under earth all the way for extra precautions? or is the inspector right because he is afraid of someone cutting it in the future? ...
Click to expand...
see post #11. If it's not in the FBC and the permit was pulled in 2018, he's wrong about all of it. 12" to 18"-wrong, pipe-wrong, 4 to 6 inches-wrong. Do what you usually do when an inspector is 100% wrong.
Traino Electric said:
... originally, there wasn't a gutter and now there was upon my final inspection (where I failed for this). I don't have a gutter on my plans, so kitchen contractor must have added it and didn't inform me. ...
Click to expand...
Charge the customer for the change order. Not on the plans! You are not psychic. Eat your mistakes, don't let other people make you eat their mistakes! Not on the plans means it wasn't covered in your estimate.
 
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Traino Electric said:
View attachment 20460
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Stand on the deck and face the house. Is there anything metal (like a gutter) that runs from one corner to the other? If yes, post #9 is still my answer. The corner opposite the equipment is a lot less digging.
Glennsparky said:
2. Do the older structures have gutters (or attics) that run close to the kitchen gutter. Bonding jumper between gutters, then bond the old gutter. (Or snake the bond wire thru the attic.)
...
Click to expand...
 
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