Estimating Am I in ball park

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arnettda

Senior Member
for people who do sq ft estimating and everyone else I bid a 60ftx30ft town hall at $18,000. 17 8' wraps 14 single pole light switches, 30 duplex recepticles, 2 forced air furnaces both with ac units, 5 outside wall packs all to be done in EMT or steel flex. Second time for bidding work like this did take off and used labor units. Am I in the ball park? I am giving my estimate to a few new GC's and do not want to be know for being way off track. I also really want to learn bidding small comercial work. There is a total of 7 rooms.
Thanks
 

Ruff-N

Member
Compare your sq ft bid to your unit pricing bid if they are pretty close to being the same and you feel good about your selling price then you got it.
 

Ruff-N

Member
My problem is I have no sq ft pricing.

Then I would stick to what I know, Mike Holt offers books and software in step by step ways to estimate and bid work maybe that would be worth looking at, I bought one of Mikes estimating books it had good info :).
 
In my opinion, at that square ft price you should be on the safe side but still competitive. Mike Holt has a very good book on estimating. There are several labor unit manuals on the market.

Is the service all existing?

You can also break down the labor hour totals to man days and get a better feel of the job duration. Man days divided by construction days equals crew size.

Example: It will take "x" amt of days for lighting, wiring devices, ac systems,etc...

Good luck.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
I also really want to learn bidding small comercial work. .

Material x markup + labor x profit = price


I mostly use standard labor units; to really sharpen the pencil keep accurate track of labor hours on previous jobs (once you start getting the work) and use those labor units in future bids. That plus a solid material list will keep your prices competitive; just make sure you're making the profit you need to operate.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
I still think Rocky's rule - "The more accurate your bid, the less chance you having of the job being awarded to you", is even more true today, than it has anytime in history!
 

Bill Ruffner

Member
Location
Plainfield, IL
In my humble opinion, people often end up losing money on jobs because they neglect to identify and account for all of their costs. Following is a breakdown of the various costs that must be accounted for in an accurate estimate. Rather than rewriting all of the lists, I have simply attached some screen shots for you to look at.

Material

  • Material

  • Misc Material

  • Waste and Theft

  • Sales Tax

Labor

  • Direct Labor - This is simply the number of hours times the employee's hourly pay rate

  • Burden - I recommend that you determine each employee's billable rate per hour for burden. Burden is the additional cost that you incur for your manpower. This can be payroll taxes, workmans comp, liabilty insurance, health insurance, paid vacations, bonus', etc. Calculate the employee's total burden for the year and then divide that by the number of actual hours that the employee will actually be on the job and his hours are billable. This will give you your billable rate per hour. Note: This should not include any corporate overhead or profit. You just want to determine what this employee actually costs you per hour.

  • Future Rate Increases - If you will incur a payroll rate increase during the project, you need to calculate the true additional labor cost for the job

  • Skill Level Adjustments - You must account for the additional time that the entire crew will need to work due to an employee's lower skill level and their lack of productivity. This employee's lack of productivity will made your more expensive employees work more hours.

  • Additional Labor - See screen shot

  • Labor Hour Adjustments - See screen shot

Misc. Expenses

  • Misc. Direct Job Expenses - See screen shot

  • Subcontracts

  • Tools

Overhead - It is vital that you know your true overhead costs. Overhead is what it costs to run your company. You can either calculate your overhead as a percentage of the projects estimated prime cost or you can use a dollar per hour amount.

Profit - You will use the profit percentage to deterime your bid price. First you need to determine exactly how much the project is going to cost you. This is your break-even cost. Then you determine your bid price by adding the profit that you need to make on the job.


Estimated Prime Cost = Material + Labor + Misc. Job Expenses

Estimated Break-Even Cost = Estimated Prime Cost + Overhead

Bid Price = Estimated Break-Even Cost + Profit
 
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satcom

Senior Member
In my humble opinion, people often end up losing money on jobs because they neglect to identify and account for all of their costs.

I still hear from some of my students who went on to build a solid business, and they will say, pretty much the same thing, making them aware of all their costs, and job conditions, allowed them to price for profit and grow.
 

Bill Ruffner

Member
Location
Plainfield, IL
I forgot to mention that not only do you need to look at potential labor hour adjustments on a project level, you should also look at labor difficulty factors for each segment of the project. You could have 2 areas in the same project that will have different installation difficulty. In one area you might want to increase the standard labor units for the material that will be installed in the ceiling because of excessive ladder work, drilling, etc. In another location, maybe the conduit will all be exposed and you'll need to spend additional time making the installation look good.

Not all installations are going to include the same difficulty. You should adjust your standard labor units to account for conditions that will cause you to incur more labor hours.
 

Bill Ruffner

Member
Location
Plainfield, IL
I still hear from some of my students who went on to build a solid business, and they will say, pretty much the same thing, making them aware of all their costs, and job conditions, allowed them to price for profit and grow.

Absolutely! There is simply too much at stake. I don't think any of us are doing this for practice. It just makes common sense to take the time and try to be as accurate and detailed as possible.

Whatever method of estimating you use, take the time to accurately determine what the job is going to cost you to do. You will be able to provide great detail to your customers and you will build a solid reputation as a true professional.

It will also allow you get jobs without having to be the lowest bid. People will pay more for a contractor that they have confidence in. It's a simple truth that you will not prosper and obtain wealth by having to always be the low bid to get the job.

We all need to step up our game and do everything the best that we can. The saying that "We get out of it what we put into it" is true. Exceptionalism will stand out and be rewarded. We all have the power to succeed in this environment and have the ability to provide a good life for ourselves and our family. It's not about working harder but working smarter.

OK. I'll stop now. I just realized I am getting out of hand and will quickly step down from the soapbox.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
We all need to step up our game and do everything the best that we can. The saying that "We get out of it what we put into it" is true. Exceptionalism will stand out and be rewarded. We all have the power to succeed in this environment and have the ability to provide a good life for ourselves and our family. It's not about working harder but working smarter.

OK. I'll stop now. I just realized I am getting out of hand and will quickly step down from the soapbox.

No, you stay up there. We all need reminding from time to time. By the way, your product is outstanding.
 

Bill Ruffner

Member
Location
Plainfield, IL
I still hear from some of my students who went on to build a solid business, and they will say, pretty much the same thing, making them aware of all their costs, and job conditions, allowed them to price for profit and grow.

Hi Satcom,

You mentioned hearing from some of your students. Do you teach estimating?
 

Bill Ruffner

Member
Location
Plainfield, IL
No, you stay up there. We all need reminding from time to time. By the way, your product is outstanding.

You're right. We all need a little pep talk every now and then. All of the guys (and gals) that have summoned up the courage to believe that they can go out on their own are really very special. It's not easy operating without a safety net. There are no longer any excuses because they are responsible for everything. It's a heavy burden, especially for those with a family to support.

But on the other hand, it is an incredible feeling knowing that you are in charge of your own destiny. You are no longer at the whim and mercy of someone else. You cannot be laid off or have your hours cut. You are now the man and you can succeed by your own sheer will and determination. But it's not easy. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication. It takes the support of your family. It is not for the weak or timid.

My suggestion is to learn as much as you can from as many different sources as you can find. Read books on sales & marketing. Read books such as "How to make friends and influence people". Don't underestimate the importance of learning how to cultivate strong and positive relationships with your client?le. Read books such as Mike Holt's Estimating. Look at ways to streamline your business. Look at how you and your employees dress. Our appearance does send out a message to our customers. Look at your vehicles. Do they scream "Professional"? There are so many different areas that we can improve on that it's mind boggling.

All of us can find new ways of doing things. If we can't, then we are not looking very hard. Some of the areas that I mentioned might sound trivial but they all add up. Competition is downright fierce right now. Everyone else wants the same jobs that you are going after. You need every advantage that you can gain. But they will not come to you. You must put in the additional effort and search them out. You've already proven that you have the intestinal fortitude to pursue your dreams. Now just make it happen. You can do it if you continue to believe in yourself and keep pressing on as hard as you can. There will come a time when you can back off but first you need to obtain a certain level of success.

See what you did macmikeman...... I'm so used to conducting training sessions and giving webinars that I just automatically jump up on the soap box. I really just meant to ask how you are doing. What type of electrical work do you do? Are you able to keep your head above water during this economic downturn? Regardless of the estimating system that you currently use, do you find that it's helpful to have a systematical approach to identify and account for all of your cost?

You also mentioned that you thought our product was outstanding. Thank you for that comment. We really do try hard to help people succeed and we truly appreciate the kind words.
 

Bill Ruffner

Member
Location
Plainfield, IL
About 20 years ago, I can't describe the feeling of when we meet, and they tell me how I helped them get thru the rough years.

I know what you mean. It's an unbelievably good feeling when someone lets you know that you've made a difference in their life.

Just between you and me, (And about 45,000 forum members) you are still making a difference in peoples lives by the advice that you provide in your posts. You seem to be a good man satcom and I think that this forum is a better place because of you, as well as all of the other members like you.

God bless!
 

IrishRugger

Senior Member
"Just between you and me, (And about 45,000 forum members) you are still making a difference in peoples lives by the advice that you provide in your posts. You seem to be a good man satcom and I think that this forum is a better place because of you, as well as all of the other members like you."


I'll second that! Mr. Ruffner
 
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