Estimating cost for MV ATS?

[Jraef]

Has anyone bought a 5kV 200-400A (or so) ATS recently, as in the last year or so? I haven't bought one in over 10 years. I just need a rough order of magnitude (aka "hand grenade" price) to plug into a comparison on a project, nothing fancy, no spec. In fact my contention is that they don't need an ATS, all they need is two starters with a Kirk key interlock, because they are only going to transfer the loads twice per year, manually. It's going on the output of a VFD that they want to use on two different pumps, but one of the pumps only has to run twice per year for a few hours each time. End user wants to use an ATS, I think it's serous over kill.

 

[Tony S]

Wouldn't a standard distribution Tee switch do? I don't know if they are available in the US but DNO's (PoCo's) here are using remote switches.

 

[Jraef]

It would, except the motors are different HP (500HP vs 400HP) and they would have to change the VFD settings, hence the separate motor starters allows them to avoid the possible mistakes down the road. They are stuck on the ATS concept. I'm thinking two starters in a 2 high MCC section will be a lot less expensive than a 5kV rated ATS and am hoping that if they can't understand the technical benefits, they will be swayed by the cost savings.

 

[Tony S]

I have to agree with you. Two interlocked separate starters does make more sense.

 

[Sahib]

Won't ATS help in integrating pumps operation into building management system if any?

 

[ATSman]

Has anyone bought a 5kV 200-400A (or so) ATS recently, as in the last year or so? I haven't bought one in over 10 years. I just need a rough order of magnitude (aka "hand grenade" price) to plug into a comparison on a project, nothing fancy, no spec. In fact my contention is that they don't need an ATS, all they need is two starters with a Kirk key interlock, because they are only going to transfer the loads twice per year, manually. It's going on the output of a VFD that they want to use on two different pumps, but one of the pumps only has to run twice per year for a few hours each time. End user wants to use an ATS, I think it's serous over kill.

GE-Zenith makes a 5 - 12KV class ATS using 2 vacuum breakers and their MX250 controller.
But the smallest they make is 1200A rated and goes for $70K to $80K depending on the enclosure. You may be hard pressed to find a MV ATS with that low of a current rating, I don't know. ASCO's smallest is also 1200A.

 

[Jraef]

GE-Zenith makes a 5 - 12KV class ATS using 2 vacuum breakers and their MX250 controller.
But the smallest they make is 1200A rated and goes for $70K to $80K depending on the enclosure. You may be hard pressed to find a MV ATS with that low of a current rating, I don't know. ASCO's smallest is also 1200A.

Close enough, THANKS!

 

[Stebs]

You might also keep in consideration safeties to prevent them from switching the load while the vfd is running... what's the cost of just adding a second vfd?

 

[drktmplr12]

You might also keep in consideration safeties to prevent them from switching the load while the vfd is running... what's the cost of just adding a second vfd?

Medium voltage VFDs are expensive and occupy a lot of real estate. We recently specified two 200 HP 4160V VFD's and the material cost for the drive, startup and training was ~$175k. Add to that installation costs. If I had to guess, to make those 500 HP it would be roughly $250k material cost. Assuming roughly similar install cost for 2x VFD vs 1x VFD and transfer switch.

That's expensive for a drive that will run 2x per year.

My company (not me) did a similar design years ago, we used T-switches to feed one of two motors with one MV VFD. However, the motors were identical in size.

It would, except the motors are different HP (500HP vs 400HP) and they would have to change the VFD settings, hence the separate motor starters allows them to avoid the possible mistakes down the road. They are stuck on the ATS concept. I'm thinking two starters in a 2 high MCC section will be a lot less expensive than a 5kV rated ATS and am hoping that if they can't understand the technical benefits, they will be swayed by the cost savings.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]are you proposing to feed the two starters with the VFD output and control the starters as needed? that certainly sounds like the least expensive option.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]is there a fatal flaw to using a T switch and running an auxiliary contact for each position to the VFD? I know Square D VFD's can be programmed to use different settings based on digital inputs to the drive. Might be worth considering if they are stuck on the switch concept (automatic or manual).[/FONT]

 

[Jraef]

You might also keep in consideration safeties to prevent them from switching the load while the vfd is running... what's the cost of just adding a second vfd?

$200k roughly. The VFD is already there, 4160V 200A. Adding another one is not a viable solution. The existing VFD can't hold two sets of parameters without using a PLC to dump the parameters into it.

I'm adding Kirk Keys set up so that you can't close the VFD disconnect unless one, and only one, of the output starters is already closed and conversely you can't operate an output starter without first having opened the VFD disconnect.