Estimating I know times a hard but
- Thread starter sgr1
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In this enonomic climate, there are alot of EC's low on work.....just depends on how bad somebody wants it.......But, it looks like you were scraping the barrel to me....for no profit on materials, that only figures out to $387 for a 8hr day...
In fact you may have been too low, and scared them into a higher bid....:smile: Was it resi or commercial? That would make a huge difference IMO
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bradleyelectric
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- forest hill, md
macmikeman
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Possibility exists that somebody might have asked if somebody can beat the price of $20,400 to do that job, and the answer might have been" sure, I can do it for $20,000, no need to see any plans.......
CopperTone
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- MetroWest, MA
nothing you can do.
sometimes it is better to be high and wonder why you didn't get the job than be low and wonder why you did get the job.
Most guys worry when they are the low guy and get the job. I know I do.
I am putting in a bid on Wednesday - probably 4-5 EC"s bidding - public work, prevailing wage job. I am going in thinking I will be low and get it. I can almost assure you I will be high or in the middle. I can't go any lower though.
If I am low - I'm sure I can do it for that amount I bid but I still will feel that I left money on the table. That is the nature of the game.
This is not the time to throw in high bids and hope you get it. You almost certainly will not. Low bids are losing to lower bids right now. Your price should be based on what you think you can do it for and stay alive.
I've heard this here on this forum and it is true
"the better you get at estimating, the less jobs you land"
sometimes it is better to be high and wonder why you didn't get the job than be low and wonder why you did get the job.
Most guys worry when they are the low guy and get the job. I know I do.
I am putting in a bid on Wednesday - probably 4-5 EC"s bidding - public work, prevailing wage job. I am going in thinking I will be low and get it. I can almost assure you I will be high or in the middle. I can't go any lower though.
If I am low - I'm sure I can do it for that amount I bid but I still will feel that I left money on the table. That is the nature of the game.
This is not the time to throw in high bids and hope you get it. You almost certainly will not. Low bids are losing to lower bids right now. Your price should be based on what you think you can do it for and stay alive.
I've heard this here on this forum and it is true
"the better you get at estimating, the less jobs you land"
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I was involved in a job like that ....when all was said and done, the EC was mad at me [foreman] because the job "lost $17,000..."
It makes no difference that the EC I was working for at the time:
- did not look at the prints;
- bid $500 lower than "the other guy" [based on the GC's "word"]
- hadn't a clue what the "other guy's" scope included;
- did not take ANY of my advice [fire this guy, that guy and those 2 over there; use larger conduits & conductors - more material/less labor costs; etc];
- the job was bid at ........ $15,000.
BTW...this EC is "done".
macmikeman
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I cannot tell you if you underbid, or overbid, but I can tell you that when you think that you don't have too much overhead, usually you are flat out wrong about that. Go here and find out for yourself. Be honest....http://www.masterplumbers.com/utilities/costcalc/
This works just as well for electrical contractors. For new construction work, I usually figure no more than 6.7 hrs productive time per man per 8 hrs
"Thinking" and "knowing" are two different things.
The link in mac's post may prove to be an eyeopener [..or not....but save it for future reference anyway]
macmikeman
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I have a better calculator than that, given to me by "expressquote", remember him? I do not have permission to share it publicly however. Too bad I do not have a "server" for them hackers to hack.........
I remember lots of "folks" :wink:
Here is another calc., not as good as the plumbers ~ very quick, less inputs:
FreelanceSwitch Hourly Rate Calculator
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
That cost calculator is pretty much for a small operation doing service though isn't it? Yes that is a good tool to see what it is your true costs are and something that should be seen. The OP had a job that he said it actually cost $12,257. Is that material including tax permits and incidentals and no labor? If that's the case in my area that job is about $20,250. based on his man hours stated. Commercial construction is a volume game. It pays better than residential construction. Construction pays wages a small percentage for overhead and a percentage for profit. Calculate what your overhead really is and if you can't get your percent overhead down to this level look for where the money is to be made.
You can pretty much use it [the Master Plumbers link]for any operation...1 man ...mega EC...service...new work...whatever.
You just need to know how much you're paying out to accurately arrive at how much to charge.
Lcdrwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
With bids as close as that I would be looking at the process rather than the bid itself. I would have an idea that the there was some bid shopping. The GC goes to an EC he has worked with before and says hey, I've got a bid for x, can you do it cheaper? The few times I've encountered this, I give the GC an outrageous bid the next go around.
That's different then I read it. I took it to mean that his actuall cost with no profit was $12,257. (Cost would include labor, material, overhead) He decided he wanted to make 40% profit so he bid $20K. I would be very impressed if an electrical contractor could get 40% in this market.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
No. You have to make your own economic decisions and part of learning to make those decisions is the terror you will feel when you make a big booboo some day and it costs you big time.
If you bid low all the time, eventually you will get cocky and screw one up. Just part of life and learning.
What irks me is T&M jobs. I make a guess at what it is going to cost and inevitably it costs less than my guess.
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