Estimating Small Res House with McCormick

[AC\DC]

Hello again. So I have been Using McCormick since January this year. Takes time to get use to, but I am starting to love it. I have noticed something, and have a question.
I am currently Bidding on a 400 square foot remodel. and 680 square foot Cabin. I priced it out then saw what the price per square foot came out to be. I feel Its kind of high. The first one comes out at $22 and next comes out as 23.5. They are not bare minimum design. Remodel has owner designed drawings. The cabin has 17 cans through out the house with multiple 3-ways etc.. I always use AFCI comb/GFCI breakers on all 15-20 amp. Lights and receptacles all on their own. I would post the modified drawing though Its a little sloppy.

It seems I am always being told that I should be somewhere in $3-8 range from GC and looking through this sites past posts. Does my price seem outrages at a glance?
To me smaller homes are more expensive electrically, because this cabin has everything a 1.6k-2k house might have just all crammed in. The bigger houses just have a couple more lights and a few more receptacles so not that much more in price.

Also the cabin includes service and they both are an hour one way to location

 

[Little Bill]

GCs love to tell you what the price should be!!! Best bet would be to do a take-off of the materials, add your labor, profit, overhead, etc. Then see how that compares to the software.

 

[oldsparky52]

I can't comment on your price, but I would like to say that it's easy to go broke working to a GC's price.

 

[AC\DC]

Thanks bill. If I do it by hand I get around $15 square foot with everything budget in. That is a huge spread about 5k compared to the software..
Time to ponder.

 

[AC\DC]

I did a bare minimum on the program and it dropped down to 9k with all overhead and expense included. Ill just give them two option from there.

 

[acin]

If you need the work bid low, if not go high.

 

[cdslotz]

Hello again. So I have been Using McCormick since January this year. Takes time to get use to, but I am starting to love it. I have noticed something, and have a question.
I am currently Bidding on a 400 square foot remodel. and 680 square foot Cabin. I priced it out then saw what the price per square foot came out to be. I feel Its kind of high. The first one comes out at $22 and next comes out as 23.5. They are not bare minimum design. Remodel has owner designed drawings. The cabin has 17 cans through out the house with multiple 3-ways etc.. I always use AFCI comb/GFCI breakers on all 15-20 amp. Lights and receptacles all on their own. I would post the modified drawing though Its a little sloppy.

It seems I am always being told that I should be somewhere in $3-8 range from GC and looking through this sites past posts. Does my price seem outrages at a glance?
To me smaller homes are more expensive electrically, because this cabin has everything a 1.6k-2k house might have just all crammed in. The bigger houses just have a couple more lights and a few more receptacles so not that much more in price.

Also the cabin includes service and they both are an hour one way to location

When you do a takeoff with software, which I commend you for doing to find out you real cost, you come up with material $ + labor man/hrs + job expenses.....so how did you figure the labor "rate" that you applied to man/hrs?

 

[AC\DC]

When you do a takeoff with software, which I commend you for doing to find out you real cost, you come up with material $ + labor man/hrs + job expenses.....so how did you figure the labor "rate" that you applied to man/hrs?

It is just me So I have my hourly rate I pay myself, plus health insurance, and a little saving for retirement account plus taxes I would pay. That is what I have budgeted in the hourly rate. The office hours and planning and that stuff I throw them into overhead category.

 

[oldsparky52]

It is just me So I have my hourly rate I pay myself, plus health insurance, and a little saving for retirement account plus taxes I would pay. That is what I have budgeted in the hourly rate. The office hours and planning and that stuff I throw them into overhead category.

Don't forget sick time, vacations, and holidays in the hourly rate.

 

[cdslotz]

It is just me So I have my hourly rate I pay myself, plus health insurance, and a little saving for retirement account plus taxes I would pay. That is what I have budgeted in the hourly rate. The office hours and planning and that stuff I throw them into overhead category.

I don't know what your rate is, but the way we (and our competition) apply rates to labor units is based on "average shop rate"....or the average rate of the crew to work the job, if you know who the crew is (ie..J1+J2+H1+H2/4)...then add labor burden, say 40%...then OH&P.
If you apply a service hourly rate (which I think that is what you are doing)...you will be way high

 

[roger]

It seems I am always being told that I should be somewhere in $3-8 range from GC and looking through this sites past posts. Does my price seem outrages at a glance?

Sure they do, then they base their price on $22.00

Roger

 

[AC\DC]

I don't know what your rate is, but the way we (and our competition) apply rates to labor units is based on "average shop rate"....or the average rate of the crew to work the job, if you know who the crew is (ie..J1+J2+H1+H2/4)...then add labor burden, say 40%...then OH&P.
If you apply a service hourly rate (which I think that is what you are doing)...you will be way high

I’ll have to go back through mikes book on estimating again.
So if your rate of let’s say $85 hourly for service work. That price is tailored to just service work you would have a different price for bidding large job?

I am currently matching local EC for hourly rate.

 

[roger]

I’ll have to go back through mikes book on estimating again.
So if your rate of let’s say $85 hourly for service work. That price is tailored to just service work you would have a different price for bidding large job?

Absolutely, then on competitive bids you will need to look at where you can trim the final number a little.

Roger

 

[AC\DC]

Absolutely, then on competitive bids you will need to look at where you can trim the final number a little.

Roger

Oops. That’s my problem then. Now I like service work again lol

 

[cdslotz]

I’ll have to go back through mikes book on estimating again.
So if your rate of let’s say $85 hourly for service work. That price is tailored to just service work you would have a different price for bidding large job?

I am currently matching local EC for hourly rate.

Yes. Your $85/hr service rates include taxes, insurance, OH/profit....you said you added those things on top of that rate

 

[brantmacga]

I’ll have to go back through mikes book on estimating again.
So if your rate of let’s say $85 hourly for service work. That price is tailored to just service work you would have a different price for bidding large job?

I am currently matching local EC for hourly rate.

My hourly labor bid rate on new construction is a 1/3 of the service rate. Overhead is added on top of the total cost.

Also, for new residential, my code minimum base bid rate is going to average around $8/ft. Going rate here is between $3-$4. At those prices, I’m not doing any tract homes. We are primarily commercial construction; as such, our overhead and labor is significantly higher than new residential shops. I’ve only been doing custom residential, and my overall price ends up around $10-$12/ft. That said, for what I charge, I think I offer a supreme installation with premium materials and particular attention to details.


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[AC\DC]

Thank you guys.
I think on new construction I will keep my labor rate and just not add in overhead and profit on my program. And cut a few hours were it seems high. I do a lot of remodels and I think I will keep it like I have been just cutting hours were it seems high.

 

[cdslotz]

Thank you guys.
I think on new construction I will keep my labor rate and just not add in overhead and profit on my program. And cut a few hours were it seems high. I do a lot of remodels and I think I will keep it like I have been just cutting hours were it seems high.

Then you are giving away material and overhead for free....
The idea of using software or any method of estimating is to come up with your RAW COST...then add OH/P

 

[AC\DC]

I meant to say my service rate since that already has overhead and and profit. Material would still be added.
i am really still up in the air. I think I going to take some business classes.

 

[cdslotz]

The problem you are having is that you (owner) is also the tradesman that is doing the work in the field.
Your salary under normal conditions would be overhead, as would secretary, estimator, project mgr, etc.
You are calculating your salary as an hourly employee, which is obviously different than if you had employees.
You are basically double-dipping by charging "your rate" + overhead