Estimating

D

dride

Member
Location
Cleveland
Occupation
Electrician
How is everyone estimating a new residential job?
Never really estimated besides it'll take a day or 2 days as a JW. But the opportunity has came that I could bounce and start doing my own work?
 
It kind of depends on who's building the house. Well, I should actually say it depends on what kind of house it is and who's paying you.

There are builders who simply want the lowest price. Many of them have an allowance for electrical, and they tell you how much you'll be paid. These scumbags usually want a price per square foot, and that's basically getting a code minimum job. They don't really care if it is actually code compliant, as long as you can make it past inspection

Volume builders who want a much better job will many times ask for an opening price, and that will cover about 90% of all the openings. Smoke detectors, ceiling fans, chandeliers, bathroom fans, etc are expected to have a higher opening price.

Custom builders will either ask for something like a volume builder opening price, a unit price, or time and material
 
I guess what I really want is the nec manual of labor.
Ok, so what's a standard opening price for outlet
 
dride said:
I guess what I really want is the nec manual of labor.
Ok, so what's a standard opening price for outlet
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I've never heard of an NEC manual of labor. You might search for RSMeans
 
cdslotz said:
No....there is a NECA labor book....but you will neve get a job using NECA units....or RS Means for that matter
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NEC is not NECA, and I agree, you will not win any job using their numbers.
 
There are no shortcuts to estimating, if you wish to remain in business long term.

Take the time to sit down and make a complete materials takeoff, do the job in your mind to come up with how long you think it will take, figure out what YOUR OWN overhead is, add a profit percentage, and price accordingly.

After the job, go over the bid numbers and your actual numbers, note what you were high on, what you were low on or missed, and what you were accurate on.

With time, and many many similar projects, you will become very efficient at bidding. But you have to put in the time and legwork. It’s no different than becoming a JW electrician. If an apprentice asked for a formula to know all that a JW knows, you’d direct him to the standard 8000 hour apprenticeship program.

Learning the business end of things is no different. You have to put in your time.

Few if any long term successful contractors allow others to dictate their pricing, whether that is the customer or cost books. Know Your Own Numbers!
 
Over time, log everything you do. Log everything and anything related to the business. Log everything you can reasonably isolate in a job if you're solo. Log general install types if you're a foreman. After so many jobs you'll have an average number. Keep logging, see if you can get the numbers down. Use those numbers and thorough takeoffs.

NECA and such are overcooked numbers, but if you have to start anywhere, start with them sure. I think x0.80 across their board is going to be closer to market averages.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
There are no shortcuts to estimating, if you wish to remain in business long term.

Take the time to sit down and make a complete materials takeoff, do the job in your mind to come up with how long you think it will take, figure out what YOUR OWN overhead is, add a profit percentage, and price accordingly.

After the job, go over the bid numbers and your actual numbers, note what you were high on, what you were low on or missed, and what you were accurate on.

With time, and many many similar projects, you will become very efficient at bidding. But you have to put in the time and legwork. It’s no different than becoming a JW electrician. If an apprentice asked for a formula to know all that a JW knows, you’d direct him to the standard 8000 hour apprenticeship program.

Learning the business end of things is no different. You have to put in your time.

Few if any long term successful contractors allow others to dictate their pricing, whether that is the customer or cost books. Know Your Own Numbers!
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Couldn’t be more true. Curious if you have any recommendations for estimating software that you use or have used? I’m trying to get out Excel.
 
I swapped to a new one cost be 30 bucks a month and is always updating . Plus it does many other thing. I crossed reference with my previous one and now use it soly. Pm me

Also saved me 3k a year on stupid McCormick
 
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NECA book is ok but you have to find your own multiplier to get accurate with it. It's a lot more than doing the actual work. It's your truck cost. truck insurance, liability and workmen's comp, how many times you're working and interrupted by phone calls, material delivery and storage. replacing tools when they break. Unproductive time for coffee and lunch. job site conditions...working in a basement with a dirt floor uneven to place a ladder on, getting permits and inspections, repair wiring nicked by drywallers, customer change orders and additions, extreme weather conditions heat and cold. Trips to the truck and supply house.

The list is endless. You get through all the above you find out NECA maybe isn't that bad.
 
Eddie702 said:
NECA book is ok but you have to find your own multiplier to get accurate with it. It's a lot more than doing the actual work. It's your truck cost. truck insurance, liability and workmen's comp, how many times you're working and interrupted by phone calls, material delivery and storage. replacing tools when they break. Unproductive time for coffee and lunch. job site conditions...working in a basement with a dirt floor uneven to place a ladder on, getting permits and inspections, repair wiring nicked by drywallers, customer change orders and additions, extreme weather conditions heat and cold. Trips to the truck and supply house.

The list is endless. You get through all the above you find out NECA maybe isn't that bad.
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Yes, NECA is supposed to take all that into account.
On the other hand, if you're in service, it'd be very low. Service is x2 everything.
I actually took the bother to log every single minute last month.
It was 54% billed labor, 46% unbilled.
I'm fine with x2.
 
dride said:
How is everyone estimating a new residential job?
Never really estimated besides it'll take a day or 2 days as a JW. But the opportunity has came that I could bounce and start doing my own work?
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We price by the drop, and we specify what each drop is and each has a different price. As an example a standard outlet 12-15" above floor in nail on box-$100. A baseboard mounted outlet-$125.00. Additional work to put in cut in box and 90% of the time widen the hole in the base board so additional cost.
Recess light with housing and trim-$150.
We then add up each line item and that's the total.
We do primarily custom remodels and new construction this way. I do the smaller commercial jobs like this as well.
We don't line items each drops price just submit a total job price.
Prices vary by location and builder.
 
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