Estimating

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solaeros

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Allright, anyone out there want to give up any tricks of the trade regarding estimating? I'm killing myself with this learning curve. Obviously unit cost per square foot is not very acurate, should I be pricing per box, if so how much should it vary from one kind to the next?. I know most of you will just give me a "too many variables to say" answer but, i'm just looking for any PERSONAL tips I can get. Oh yeah and what kind of electric drills does everyone like? something light and compact?
 
solaeros said:
Allright, anyone out there want to give up any tricks of the trade regarding estimating? I'm killing myself with this learning curve.
Take your time...do a take-off.
Count every item..take your time.
The estimate is the one place NOT to breeze though it .

solaeros said:
Obviously unit cost per square foot is not very acurate, should I be pricing per box, if so how much should it vary from one kind to the next?. I know most of you will just give me a "too many variables to say" answer but, i'm just looking for any PERSONAL tips I can get.
Yup.. sq.ft is pretty useless, unless you have a long term history of similar projects to compare it to ~ but just for comparison...not to submit.

While it true that there are "too many variables"...the variables can be narrowed down.
What type job is it? Resi., comm., industrial, etc
What wiring methods will be used? NM, MC, RMC, etc
Jobs physical attributes? 10' ceilings, 15', 20', etc
Combination of the above (and more)?

Schedule some "quiet time"...sit down with the print, highlighters, and paper(or similar on a computer ~ but disconnect from the internet so the distraction isn't right there).

Do your take-off...go room-by-room if you have to. Accuracy counts here. Take a break every 2 hours...LEAVE the room/print....go look at the clouds or traffic :) Don't forget...every 2 hours or so...just walk away...don't forget to eat while doing the take-off ~ but don't eat/drink over the print.
Take your time.
An accurate take-off yeilds an accurate estimate which will yeild a higher closing rate.

I personally do NOT vary price from bob to box, ie, a 2/3 gang switch is not priced as a 2/3 gang - it's priced at 2/3 1G switches. Some guys price it as 2/3. IMHO, the difference is price is neglibile on "standard" 15A switches in a dwelling unit....but only up to 3G, 4G is another animal.


solaeros said:
Oh yeah and what kind of electric drills does everyone like? something light and compact?
I'm partial to DeWalt 14.4 compacts.
I also like Milwaukee drills..right angle and hole shooters.
It all depends on what the task is.
 
solaeros said:
So, is the Labor & material units manual beneficial? Does anyone use it?
There are plenty of them..RS Means comes to the front of my cranium..as does The Nationial Estimator (TNE)....I think ALL estimating programs have labor and material units ;)

THINGS TO CONSIDER BEFORE PURCHASING ANY ESTIMATING SOFTWARE

(Great insightful link...no endorsement of any particular estimating package).


There are some on-line "manuals" available (free, but time consuming to use). Here is one such animal:
Get-A-Quote

And here is a different species:
Electrical Reference
 
solaeros,

The best estimate to give is no estimate at all. By that I mean, $2345.67

is an estimate for a job and " I figure between $2000 if it goes good to $2500

for the unknown", is a range that leaves the door open. Work for the GC's

that have the high end jobs where $ is not as tight. When they need you to

start the job, be there, do your best work, clean up when your done. It,s no

fun doing estimates, unless you have to!!
 
benaround said:
I figure between $2000 if it goes good to $2500 for the unknown", is a range that leaves the door open. Work for the GC's
that have the high end jobs where $ is not as tight.

A high end job is not $2000-$2500 ...more like $40-$100k ...that's a HUGE spread and any GC that "accepts" that range verbal (or even on "paper") is one I would prefer NOT to work with.

How do moves/adds/changes get addressed?


benaround said:
It,s no fun doing estimates, unless you have to!!

In some States (NJ is particular) you "have to" submit a signed contract with the permit application $xx,xxx - xxx,xxx is not acceptable in either document.


So "say" you manage to bamboozle your way into a high-end scenario ...mid-way through, the GC says "That's it...you spent the allotment for Division 16 ."
Now what???

You HAVE TO do an estimate...and it has to be done ACCURATELY.
 
Well, there are several alternatives you can use for estimating. We use our own unit priced program that seems to work well for us. We use an excel based spreadsheet program with unit prices and labor hours from industry standards and from years of experience. For example if we are bidding a small T.I. we will use unit prices for each receptacle. Let?s say $68.00 for one duplex receptacle 25? from the next receptacle another using M/C cable. You would also have different prices for double duplex, dedicated and so on. The other method is long hand take off. This way you would have a unit price for each receptacle say $28.00 and would measure your wire lengths from your scaled plans between each receptacle. I have a price per foot for M/C or EMT and # of wires. This method is very precise but time consuming. We use both methods for jobs in the millions. You can also purchase estimating software but this can be very expensive and may be too complicated for the type of work you do. We have used our estimating program, purchased programs and ours suits our specific needs. Not to say, that our unit prices work for everything estimate. That?s were you use your knowledge to modify your unit price to fit that specific application. Hope this helps. Good Luck
 
solaeros said:
So, is the Labor & material units manual beneficial? Does anyone use it?

I would have to say that teh Means and NECA Labor Manual Units are onl to be used during pricing for change orders. Celtic has the correct approach. Take the time to do an accurate take-off. You can not only use this for pricing the project, but also for tracking productivity during the project.
 
A large part of the answer to your question can be determined first by the type of work you do or are pursuing.

From what I understand in my area(NC), a lot of the residential guys are giving square foot pricing. This is a very unreliable method especially dealing with custom homes. Most of these guys probably don't have a true picture of their costs.

Unit pricing or pricing per outlet is the next step up. If you are doing residential, single family, then this works fairly well as long as you update your pricing and keep the major equipment as a seperate unit price.

When you get to the multi-family and commercial work, I found it best to have a complete takeoff showing my material, labor hours, and pricing. This allows me to purchase what I need for the job and not guess. It also allows me to track productivity and job costing.

I am a firm advocate of software for the takeoff. It helps eliminate many of the mistakes that can happen in pricing and extending. It also cuts the time required to do that substantially and eventually paying for itself.

NECA's Manual of Labor Units and Means or any of others are simply a guideline and need to be modified to fit your situation. Same for any pricing service. There is one pricing service that is supposed to tie to your suppliers over the net to retrieve your actual pricing. It's called NetPricer. It seems to work fairly well.
 
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