Estimating
- Thread starter T-BONE
- Start date
- Status
barbeer
Senior Member
- Location
- Pinellas County, FL
I assume you are referring to project bidding? Why not do it yourself? Do a take off and let the supply house give you a bid package and half the work is done for you.
dduffee260
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
T-BONE said:
Who is doing your bidding now?
buddyboxtoolcase
Member
your first hand experience is the best. 10 to 12 % on certain types or construction is a good ball park figure. I wouldn't count on anyone else to figure out my bids other than myself. You have to consider weather and avalibility of man power take in consideration time of year and time to complete job also track record of general contractor some are much better to work with than others.T-BONE said:
buddyboxtoolcase
Member
Yes I can relate with that, just one guy electric? I finally got an apprentice from the IBEW and am very happy. Estimating is the thing I do at night time and sometimes you have to take 2 to 4 hours durring the day, while you have obligated to performing the work, hard place to be. I have been up till 1 or 2 am crunching numbers and take offs and digesting spec. books and the worst thing is the last week of days of the bid when the addendums come flying to you. My experienc with the suppliers is they wait until the last hour or 30 minuets to give you the lot price on the fixtures, gear and specials, but those addendums are the worst hurdle to digest at the last few days. I havent gone to wrong with bid it as you see it and obligate your company for what you think you can do it for not what you think the compeditor will bid, and dont be afraid of asking how did I do the next week. Thats how you build the relationships with the generals, its all about building relationships with your customers, profit comes and goes thats part of business.
little sparkie
Member
- Location
- Mt. Airy, MD
I do my own, generally on weekends when I tend not to get interrupted as much as during the week. With more experience it gets easier to scope out the labor for a job. Don't forget to adjust for working conditions, there are a lot of factors that can affect how long it takes to do something. Estimating is as much an art as a science. And don't forget, some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug...not referring to splices for large conductors :grin:
HydeBay1
Member
- Location
- Montana and Seattle
Business basic
Business basic
I made a decent living for some years dealing with failed projects, then businesses with failed business plans.
Prior to that, as an estimator for electrical contractors I was the estimator on several projects that were not successful (and many that were just fine.)
Please take my observations in any way you might. My degree is business, my background is electrical contracting.
If you have determined that the next level to your electrical contracting business is to hire an estimator you are at a very important decision level.
Do you have a clearly defined business plan? Do you really know your business? There are several levels of operation in this industry.
Assuming that you came from the trade, the first elevation of business in our industry is to add journeymen and apprentices. To do so our sales level and mark up need to jump to a dramatically different model than when we operated out of our truck. That jump, depending on the specific market, is probably in the neighborhood of keeping six to twelve crafts people busy and profitable.
At all levels up to that point, you, the electrical contractor will have understood the material surveys, application of labor units, application of material costs, integrated the cost of general and specific conditions of the request for proposal or the expectations of a private customer plus a reasonable profit to keep your business alive.
In all profitable contracting firms the cost of overhead is understood and factored into each estimate.
The estimator you hire is part of that overhead. That is the next quantum leap growing your business. Adding an estimator raises the required volume of sales by a factor that will cover the salary cost of the estimator divided by the required margin your business requires to remain profitable.
Typically that will not happen immediately and you need to have enough cash reserve to pay that salary while waiting for the new estimator to develop enough business to be a profit center.
Hiring any employee, it is basic to define the fundamental skills and behaviors that will lead to success in the proposed position. An electrical estimator must understand the contracts for which they are bidding, integrate real world trade practices with conceptual design documents, anticipate problems and opportunities with both physical and contractual conditions of the project, and perform an accurate material survey from the contract documents as presented.
From that material survey the estimator, and the executive team reviewing the estimate and bid, must assure reasonable application of material costs, labor units, allowance for overhead costs, small tools, expendables, desired allowance for good will, and finally some reasonable profit to keep the business alive.
My observation is that contractors tend to look at the first part of the equation and understand they need to hire the least cost estimator they can so that the quantum jump in sales is minimized.
My experience is that the least qualified person to do a material survey and turn it into a contractually binding bid is only profitable in the context of a business model where projects are highly consistent. I have seen that model work in several business models. I have not seen it successful where there is any appreciable mix of project types.
OK, back to the original question, "do you know any. . . estimating companies?"
No
Estimating is all about indvidual skill and ability.
You will find individuals and companies that can produce a decent material survey. If you depend on them to produce your bids, and your bonding company is pretty fat, I am available to help sort out the mess.
Dick
Business basic
I made a decent living for some years dealing with failed projects, then businesses with failed business plans.
Prior to that, as an estimator for electrical contractors I was the estimator on several projects that were not successful (and many that were just fine.)
Please take my observations in any way you might. My degree is business, my background is electrical contracting.
If you have determined that the next level to your electrical contracting business is to hire an estimator you are at a very important decision level.
Do you have a clearly defined business plan? Do you really know your business? There are several levels of operation in this industry.
Assuming that you came from the trade, the first elevation of business in our industry is to add journeymen and apprentices. To do so our sales level and mark up need to jump to a dramatically different model than when we operated out of our truck. That jump, depending on the specific market, is probably in the neighborhood of keeping six to twelve crafts people busy and profitable.
At all levels up to that point, you, the electrical contractor will have understood the material surveys, application of labor units, application of material costs, integrated the cost of general and specific conditions of the request for proposal or the expectations of a private customer plus a reasonable profit to keep your business alive.
In all profitable contracting firms the cost of overhead is understood and factored into each estimate.
The estimator you hire is part of that overhead. That is the next quantum leap growing your business. Adding an estimator raises the required volume of sales by a factor that will cover the salary cost of the estimator divided by the required margin your business requires to remain profitable.
Typically that will not happen immediately and you need to have enough cash reserve to pay that salary while waiting for the new estimator to develop enough business to be a profit center.
Hiring any employee, it is basic to define the fundamental skills and behaviors that will lead to success in the proposed position. An electrical estimator must understand the contracts for which they are bidding, integrate real world trade practices with conceptual design documents, anticipate problems and opportunities with both physical and contractual conditions of the project, and perform an accurate material survey from the contract documents as presented.
From that material survey the estimator, and the executive team reviewing the estimate and bid, must assure reasonable application of material costs, labor units, allowance for overhead costs, small tools, expendables, desired allowance for good will, and finally some reasonable profit to keep the business alive.
My observation is that contractors tend to look at the first part of the equation and understand they need to hire the least cost estimator they can so that the quantum jump in sales is minimized.
My experience is that the least qualified person to do a material survey and turn it into a contractually binding bid is only profitable in the context of a business model where projects are highly consistent. I have seen that model work in several business models. I have not seen it successful where there is any appreciable mix of project types.
OK, back to the original question, "do you know any. . . estimating companies?"
No
Estimating is all about indvidual skill and ability.
You will find individuals and companies that can produce a decent material survey. If you depend on them to produce your bids, and your bonding company is pretty fat, I am available to help sort out the mess.
Dick
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