Estimator Position

[DavidA]

The electrical contractor that I've been working for recently lost their estimator/shop manager. I was offered the position but would like to first poll the collective experience of this forum as to what questions I should ask and what traps/pitfalls I need to be aware of before I jump from electrician to estimator. Thanks.

 

[KD4315]

The biggest one would be sitting behind a desk ALL DAY LONG. Do you think you'll be able to do that? It is boring and the day will go by much slower than when you're in the field.

 

[cdslotz]

If sitting at a desk is the worst thing, that's great.
Estimating has served me well over 30 years.
I thank God I got out of the field at an early age. There is no way I could climb ladders or crawl under cabinets in my 50's.
Estimating used to be really tough with long all-nighters pounding on a calculator.
But, computers, the internet, electronic drawings almost makes it paperless. I can do work at home at my drawing table, in my shorts and barefoot, and access my desktop computer at work remotely.
If you are good at it, you will very rarely have to look for work.
And, the best part is, good estimators are in high demand when work is slow.

 

[tkb]

You have to ask yourself, how long can you work in the field?
The next step in your career is usually the office.

 

[ceb58]

I would want to know if the other guys leaving was of his own accord or was he really given the boot?
Why did he leave? Retirement, better job, less stress?

 

[petersonra]

The electrical contractor that I've been working for recently lost their estimator/shop manager. I was offered the position but would like to first poll the collective experience of this forum as to what questions I should ask and what traps/pitfalls I need to be aware of before I jump from electrician to estimator. Thanks.

Like any new job it is a crap shoot.

If you are old and decrepit from working hard all your life, and your body is about to fall apart from hard labor, it might be a godsend. If you especially like the work you are doing now, working in an office environment might not be for you.

Most places this would be considered a bit of a promotion. But it might actually be a reduction in pay if there is no OT involved and you now get a lot of OT. I have known a fair number of people this has happened to.

There could be a company car in the mix or other perks.

One thing that you may want to consider. Chances are you will not be able to be part of the gang anymore. Your loyalties will shift from the group you are working with now toward the company. For some that is very hard, especially in a union shop (if that is the case where you work). Some places this is not a big deal, other places it is. You are also going to learn a lot of things about the company that you just won't be able to share with the old gang. that may make you uncomfortable.

 

[mkgrady]

Seems like you have nothing to loose by giving it a shot. You can always go back to what you are doing and if you do you will have had a learning experience. If you stay at the new position it will be because you like it better. Seems like you have nothing to loose unless it pays less. Even if it pays less it could be a good stepping stone to a management job down the road.

 

[Fulthrotl]

The electrical contractor that I've been working for recently lost their estimator/shop manager. I was offered the position but would like to first poll the collective experience of this forum as to what questions I should ask and what traps/pitfalls I need to be aware of before I jump from electrician to estimator. Thanks.

that they asked you is a complement to you.

they are trusting you with their business.
estimating, if you blow a huge bid, you can kill a company.

don't screw up.

 

[satcom]

I guess the big question is, do you feel you have the experience, and and the years of actuals data, to estimate with a good success rate.

 

[DavidA]

I'm in my mid 30s with only 6 years in the field balanced between residential, commercial and industrial. I've caught on pretty quickly and have been warned by the owner that there is a steep learning curve involved. I was already considering an office type job since I've been studying drafting and electrical design. The worst part may be learning the UL manual as I'll also be biddig for the controls side of the shop. Great advise folks and keep it comming. And yes, I'm ordering an estimation package from Mike Holt tonight to kick start my reeducation.

 

[cdslotz]

One thing that you may want to consider. Chances are you will not be able to be part of the gang anymore. Your loyalties will shift from the group you are working with now toward the company. For some that is very hard, especially in a union shop (if that is the case where you work). Some places this is not a big deal, other places it is. You are also going to learn a lot of things about the company that you just won't be able to share with the old gang. that may make you uncomfortable.

I take it you are a union worker. Sounds like a "it's us against them" culture where you are.
I get along great with the field and PM's who have to bring the jobs in that I win. We all get bonuses company wide based on profits for the entire year on all jobs. We all work together or we all fail. Our electricians communicate with me all the time about problems with the estimate and we come up with solutions. I make mistakes all the time, but it has never pitted me against the field or the PMs.
Good companies have teams not gangs

 

[satcom]

I'm in my mid 30s with only 6 years in the field balanced between residential, commercial and industrial. I've caught on pretty quickly and have been warned by the owner that there is a steep learning curve involved. I was already considering an office type job since I've been studying drafting and electrical design. The worst part may be learning the UL manual as I'll also be biddig for the controls side of the shop. Great advise folks and keep it comming. And yes, I'm ordering an estimation package from Mike Holt tonight to kick start my reeducation.

When you start bidding, and win a few, start your own actuals logs, and record all the job actual times, and conditions, over time, this data will build and allow you to refine your bidding software, for on target estimates.

 

[DavidA]

Currently this company is using Accubid, but the previous estimator preferred a set of house built spreadsheets for a majority of the bids. So things to do:
1. Learn how to estimate everything
2. Learn how to estimate with Accubid
3. Learn how to estimate with customized spreadsheets
4. Figure out which method is more efficient for which type of job
5. End world hunger
6. Start world peace

Okay, I'm sure its not quite that bad. I am certainly feeling a little overwhelmed at this point. On the other hand, its more incentive to take this ball of snakes and lay them out straight.

I am satisfied with the reasons I have been given for the departure of the previous estimator and they agree with situations I myself witnessed. I am slightly worried about losing some of the camaraderie that I enjoyed with the electrical crew, but if I manage to win enough bids to keep them busy they will probably continue to friendly with me and only curse me behind my back. I'm not too worried about getting fat and lazy (okay, fatter...) behind a desk as my duties will still include service calls (keeping my CA state certification up to date) when the electricians aren't avaliable, shop management (okay, its just one guy putting panels together), engineer wrangling, project prodding, vendor schmoozing, and site visits for the all important field notes.

Without a doubt I am a little anxious about diving into this new world, but I suppose all I'm really going to be doing is putting a price tag on the material lists I've been making for several years. No need to think about silly details like the fate of the company resting on my feeble number crunching skills....

Yeah, anyway....I wonder if its too late to change my MH estimator package to overnight freight....

 

[KD4315]

Take the Accubid classes that Accubid offers . It sounds like your predecessor is a lot like my boss. They use Accubid as a data entry program. Accubis is a very powerful program and it will greatly benefit you if you master it. I've taken a few of them and they helped greatly. I highly recommend the Level 100 course. It not only gives you a good introduction to estimating it gets you familiar with the program.

Here is a link to their upcoming classes

http://accubid.com/education/full_sched_print.aspx

 

[cdslotz]

Without a doubt I am a little anxious about diving into this new world, but I suppose all I'm really going to be doing is putting a price tag on the material lists I've been making for several years.

No, there is a ton more to learn than coming up with a materials list, so don't expect this is something you will pick up in a few months. It takes years and you might consider getting experience in different specialties (commercial, health care, industrial, resi) down the road.
There are a lot of politics in dealing with GC's. And I can't begin to tell the politics of lighting.

Good to see you jumping in. I don't think you will regret it. Take it slow and learn all you can.
Good luck

 

[KD4315]

No, there is a ton more to learn than coming up with a materials list, so don't expect this is something you will pick up in a few months. It takes years and you might consider getting experience in different specialties (commercial, health care, industrial, resi) down the road.
There are a lot of politics in dealing with GC's. And I can't begin to tell the politics of lighting.

Good to see you jumping in. I don't think you will regret it. Take it slow and learn all you can.
Good luck

So many people have their hands in the cookie jar when it comes to lighting it's ridiculous.

 

[Strife]

Only in lighting you can buy a fixture for $ 500.00, or $150.00 for the same fixture, LITERALLY. Check some of the fixtures from different manufacturers and you'll notice that even the grooves match perfectly with one another.
But try to tell that to the specifier that, they'll throw a fit. Because they're in bed with the reps.
And if you piss off the rep, you'll never do another job in that town (least one that includes a good lighting part). Cause your prices will be so high you'll never be able to compete.

So many people have their hands in the cookie jar when it comes to lighting it's ridiculous.

 

[Fulthrotl]

No, there is a ton more to learn than coming up with a materials list, so don't expect this is something you will pick up in a few months. It takes years and you might consider getting experience in different specialties (commercial, health care, industrial, resi) down the road.
There are a lot of politics in dealing with GC's. And I can't begin to tell the politics of lighting.

Good to see you jumping in. I don't think you will regret it. Take it slow and learn all you can.
Good luck

lightshow west is next week in LA..... firsthand schmoozing......
my inbox is getting spammed with about 20 emails a day from
exhibitors....

 

[DavidA]

Yeah, I just received my company email address today and can't wait for it to start filling up with junk. Also went with the owner on a little meet and greet with a few of the local vendors. I'm really getting a rude awakening as to what this job will include. But that's all right, I figure the good Lord opened this spot up for me for a reason and with His help I will become successful at it. And again I thank you guys for the advise and will continue (probably even more so) to utilize this forum as the awesome resource that it is.

 

[petersonra]

I take it you are a union worker. Sounds like a "it's us against them" culture where you are.
I get along great with the field and PM's who have to bring the jobs in that I win. We all get bonuses company wide based on profits for the entire year on all jobs. We all work together or we all fail. Our electricians communicate with me all the time about problems with the estimate and we come up with solutions. I make mistakes all the time, but it has never pitted me against the field or the PMs.
Good companies have teams not gangs

No union here. In any case, engineers are rarely in unions.

You will note that my OP also said "Some places this is not a big deal, other places it is." There are a fair number of places where there is a huge gulf between the worker bees and the office staff. In fact, a fair number of places that are quite successful are run that way.