Ethical qurstion

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IrishRugger

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Last week I bid a small commercial job(office remodel) to a GC whom I do alot of work with. According to him he may have been awarded the job minus the mechanical which the customer wants to hire out separately. I asked him about the electrical and he told me he was unsure, but will find out on Friday, he did also add that I probly won't get it because two other EC's bid directly to the customer. According to the specs you had to bid to the GC. My question is. Should I go to the customer with my number? Am I being disloyal to my GC by doing this? Or, should I just wait and see what Friday brings? I am unsure where I placed in the bid standings the GC either doesn't know or he is not divulging any information about that to me. Last week after bid were submitted I asked how we looked and he said "Good". Also this job has been bid twice,because the first time it came in over-budget, and I bid it only the second time (did'nt have time to bid it the first time). Would you guys please help me out with this dilema? I would love the work but i don't want to create a bad situation between this GC and I. Thank You
 
did you find out about the job through the general contractor? if you go around him without his knowledge and basically are bidding against him, you will probley be burning a bridge.
 
ultramegabob said:
did you find out about the job through the general contractor? if you go around him without his knowledge and basically are bidding against him, you will probley be burning a bridge.
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Yes I did find out about the job from the GC. My gut tells me the same thing that you are saying. Also I just got a referal from him for new customer that will yeild some nice small projects.
 
when I bid a commercial job, I always get a GC bid list from the architect and submit my bid to every GC on the list. I figure I am being loyal just by allowing a GC to receive my bid. Is he being loyal by only taking your bid? I think not. by doing this I get on the "invitation to bid list" for future jobs of every GC I bid with. when you get a material takeoff from your supplier do expect them to be loyal to you and not give that price to another EC?
 
When faced with this in the past we have mentioned it to the contractor and told him that we would like to bid to the customer. If he complains we might add that we could put a small markup (2% to 5%) on our price to the customer in effect giving the GC a discount (maybe a backward discount) so that he feels more comfortable with it. Either way if other EC's are bidding straight to the customer and you don't you are probably waisting your time. I would still try to get the okay from my GC first. If he is reasonable he should not have an issue with it.
 
how would going to the customer be disloyal. This is about feeding your family. I dont see how the general would care if you aere going after work. Its not like your cutting him out. Maybe wait until friday if he doesn't get it than you need to contact the owner.
 
bradyman1 said:
When faced with this in the past we have mentioned it to the contractor and told him that we would like to bid to the customer. If he complains we might add that we could put a small markup (2% to 5%) on our price to the customer in effect giving the GC a discount (maybe a backward discount) so that he feels more comfortable with it. Either way if other EC's are bidding straight to the customer and you don't you are probably waisting your time. I would still try to get the okay from my GC first. If he is reasonable he should not have an issue with it.
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Why would a GC accept a 2% when they usually mark up our work 100 to 200% ?
The GC invests his money to grow his customers, they he is to give it away to some EC that uses the excuse i need to feed my family, what a crock, just my opinion.
 
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satcom said:
what a crock, just my opinion.
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I'm not even sure how this is going to work. There is normally only one building permit on the job. The GC pulls the building permit and the subs sign in under the building permit as the A/C, Electrical or plumber of record. In the county I live in the GC would pay the fees for the electrical along with the mechanical on the building permit. The GC is responsible for the job ( he's the one that has to get the CO).If he wants to let the owner pay some of the subs directly and cut him out of the loop that's his business. If I were the GC I would walk on this one. I wouldn't want a job where the subs were not working directly for me.

The whole idea of subs submitting quotes directly to the owner is BS. If I were the GC none of those guys would ever work for me again.
 
growler said:
The whole idea of subs submitting quotes directly to the owner is BS. If I were the GC none of those guys would ever work for me again.
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Yes if i did that the GC would let all the other GC's know how i operated and i could just forget about any future work from them.
 
IrishRugger said:
Yes I did find out about the job from the GC. My gut tells me the same thing that you are saying. Also I just got a referal from him for new customer that will yeild some nice small projects.
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I think you just answered your own question... :smile:
 
subs bidding directly to the customer does nothing but give them the general contractors cost, and they will use the info to beat his price into the ground. If I were the general contractor and my subs that I invited to bid on a project went straight to the customer that Im bidding to, and bid against me, I would never use them again.
 
I don't agree with going around the GC before the bid is awarded, but after he doesn't get the job, feel free to obtain you work where you can.

As for all of the boo-hooing over the GC, that is what is BS. Except for a very very small minority, they don't care two bits about you, your family, your employees, and most certainly not about your profit. A GC used to add money on top of your bid to cover their expenses which is fine, when they actually did something for that money. It used to be the GC's responsibility to pay you when you invoiced and then they would wait for their money from the owner...well it's no longer that way. The subs take on almost all of the responsibility on a project, from broad form "hold harmless" clauses to "pay (if) when paid" clauses, to unilateral backcharges for jobsite cleaning (after you submit all of your change orders of course). It is absolutely ridiculous that these and many other burdens are placed on subcontractors in order for the priviledge to perform work.

I almost always give each GC the same price, but not for their benefit, it is to increase the chances of me getting the project. But I have no sympathy for the plight of any GC.
 
romexking said:
I don't agree with going around the GC before the bid is awarded, but after he doesn't get the job, feel free to obtain you work where you can.

As for all of the boo-hooing over the GC, that is what is BS. Except for a very very small minority, they don't care two bits about you, your family, your employees, and most certainly not about your profit. A GC used to add money on top of your bid to cover their expenses which is fine, when they actually did something for that money. It used to be the GC's responsibility to pay you when you invoiced and then they would wait for their money from the owner...well it's no longer that way. The subs take on almost all of the responsibility on a project, from broad form "hold harmless" clauses to "pay (if) when paid" clauses, to unilateral backcharges for jobsite cleaning (after you submit all of your change orders of course). It is absolutely ridiculous that these and many other burdens are placed on subcontractors in order for the priviledge to perform work.

I almost always give each GC the same price, but not for their benefit, it is to increase the chances of me getting the project. But I have no sympathy for the plight of any GC.
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"The subs take on almost all of the responsibility on a project, from broad form "hold harmless" clauses to "pay (if) when paid" clauses, to unilateral backcharges for jobsite cleaning"

If you find any of that in a contract, stop and don't sign, we have them sign our contract, our attorney would not approve us signing their contract, but there are desprate guys out there willing to make dumb moves to secure what they think is a good contract.
 
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