Ethics vs Professionalism

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bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I recently attended a management seminar where the instructor felt that varying prices according to the situation or by pure randomness is an unethical practice. For example, he stated that raising a price simply because of the size of the customers house or by what car they drive should be prohibited. I feel there is a fine line between ethics and professionalism. It may not be a professional way to do buisness, but is it unethical? Ethics to me means that you hold to the value, quality, and safety standards on all jobs no matter how big or small. However, if I raise my price because I think I can get it and I think the customer can afford it, that is business and not ethics. And I do not mean price hiking during an emergency, that is unethical. Regular business, regular circumstances. Any thoughts?

[ April 30, 2003, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
 

ed downey

Senior Member
Location
Missouri
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Bphgravity, I Agree Whole Heartly With Your Views On Ethics & Professionalism. If The Owner Feels He Is Not Getting The Best Price He Has The Right To Go Elsewhere For A Quote. As A Contractor You Are Entitled To Get What Is A Fair Profit ANd As A Contractor You Are The Only One Who Can Determine What Is Fair From Job To Job.
 

bryonb

Member
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

I agree totally. The situation can be reversed where I would discount the cost of a project if I felt that the customer was not in a financial situation to pay for the job to be done right, such as a residential service call for a low income family.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

I agree with you BP that is how the guy I started in the trade with did business and I always considered it not only ethical but a nice thing to do. :D

Not up the charge when you see the people have money, but reduce the charge when they look like they need the work done for safety reasons and can not afford the full price. We would often fix things no charge if he thought it should be done.

How this would be unethical I do not understand. :confused:
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

I don't neccesarily do this but I certainly don't have a problem with it. I will absolutely adjust according to attitude. (Theirs not mine :D )
 

luke warmwater

Senior Member
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

BPH, I agree with you also.
We will adjust up or down. Usually upping the price is because of the p.i.t.a. factor. We might discount for a low income family or seior citizen.
Would it be unethical for a supply house to charge more to a walk in customer than to an account customer. I don't think so.
Also, is it unethical for a grocery store chain to have higher prices in a richer part of town, or for an insurance company to have higher rates in a certain demographic?
This practice is done in all types of business. That's business.
 

russellroberts

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Imho,raising your normal price on a large or difficult job is ok in a bidding situation. But on a t&m job charging 100.00 hr. when you normally get 50 just because you can is unprofessional as well as unethical. Of course there's the p.i.t.a factor as luke said.Maybe thats why I ain't rich. :D
 

definitive

Member
Location
Washington
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Ethics and professionalism are two virtues that should exist in your craftsmanship. They dont fit in the world of negotiation, if you can get $100 per hour on a job....FANTASTIC!! The customer is only concerned with the final product, if they dont like the price, they should find someone else. Any intelligent consumer will be getting a number of estimates, if you can sell them on yours, thats how you make money.
The exception to this ofcourse is when you have a repeat customer that expects a consistant rate. you cant spring price increases after the fact. If the customer knows what you charge in advance, and signs a contract, give them what they ask for.
 

edmayer

New member
Location
Outside the USA
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

The definition of price is the following: "Price is the subjective value of a good expressed in monetary terms". As it is subjective it is governed by the market forces and has nothing to do with ethics in our profession. Just put a price and wait. If somebody takes it then you will have reached an agreement usually called pre-contract.

Hope this helped you.
 

racraft

Senior Member
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

A word to the wise. Be careful when you apply the idea of charging different prices to different people.

In many states, if you change your rates for work done just after a major storm simnply because people will pay it, you will be guilty of price gouging.

Charging different rates to different persons when there are no special circumstances is one thing. Taking advantage of someone when they are most vulnerable is another.
 

noxx

Senior Member
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

(edit) Resolved.

-Noxx

[ May 01, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: noxx ]
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Dear Noxx:

I sincerely appologize if you were offended in any way by the completely and totaly accidental mispelling in my original post. I would never make a degrading remark or use racist and derogatory comments or "slang". I also feel the board moderators and administrators would never allow this terminology to be posted without immediate removal. You were the first person to pick up on this error after several other posts and probably several dozen readers. I thank you for bringing it to my attention. The spelling has been corrected. I have made over 400 posts on this forum alone and I think you will find that I am indeed a professional and ethical person. You will find most if not all other participants of this forum to be the same.

Todd: Thank you for kind remarks before I had a chance to respond. I sincerely appreciate your comment.

Bryan Holland

[ April 30, 2003, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Noxx

How dare you just entering this forum assume that you know the intentions of an individual with over 400 posts here. Maybe you should have read the other 400 of Bryan's posts before attacting him. Since none of us know the "tone" of the others posting, let me explain mine for this post: I am pissed. So read any inflection you want into this post.

Kike is a noun. Yes it is used as a disparaging term for a Jew. If it was used as a verb it would mean to gaze. Since it would make no sense in the sentence in which it was used, I like most assumed that hiking was the intended word.

Bryan changed the orginal post. I would not have. I would have added a remark under it explaining it was a typo and leave it at that.

Mike P.
 

noxx

Senior Member
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Apology absolutely accepted, having heard the term used before in that sort of context, it did not occur to me that it might be nothing more than a typo.

In regards to this..

How dare you just entering this forum assume that you know the intentions of an individual with over 400 posts here. Maybe you should have read the other 400 of Bryan's posts before attacting him. Since none of us know the "tone" of the others posting, let me explain mine for this post: I am pissed. So read any inflection you want into this post.

Kike is a noun. Yes it is used as a disparaging term for a Jew. If it was used as a verb it would mean to gaze. Since it would make no sense in the sentence in which it was used, I like most assumed that hiking was the intended word.
You can be upset as you like, you can bet that my mood was no better than your own upon reading the original post. I won't belabor you with examples, arguments, etc., because this is not the proper forum. I will however point out to you that the number of posts provided by an individual has zero bearing on their social views, attitudes, etc, Neither does my being new to the boad invalidate me by default, that notion is clannish and silly.

-Noxx

[ May 01, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: noxx ]
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

Dear Mr. Noxx:

?You can be upset as you like,? Individuals as you usually attack when wrong rather that admitting your mistake.

?You can bet that my mood was no better than your own upon reading the original post.? Are you saying that your mood justifies your actions?

?I won't belabor you with examples, arguments, etc., because this is not the proper forum.? Here you are correct, this is not the proper forum.

?I will however point out to you that the number of posts provided by an individual has zero bearing on their social views, attitudes, etc,? Wrong. The fact that none of a person's post contains anything that might lead one to believe that they are anything other than an above board person is the point.

?Neither does my being new to the boad invalidate me by default,? For a second time, you are correct. Coming in with a ?Robert Conrad attitude? does.

?that notion is clannish and silly.? I do not believe anyone here acts as if this forum is socially exclusive. Quite the contraire. The only thing clannish about this forum is our dedication to the understanding of the NEC.

Your use of the term clannish is an intentional attempt to provoke unlike the typo in the original post.

I suppose you would have attacked me had I used the word niggardly. There are better words to use than niggardly however by using it here it proves a point.

Had anyone in this forum said anything offense to you or anyone else, they would have received the same lashing that you are getting.

Mike P.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Ethics vs Professionalism

I am coming in late but I would like to say that Bryan is a gentleman that has never posted anything like that, it was obviously a typo., we all make them.

Bryan and I have had our differences but he has always been professional in our "discussions"

Noxx, before you slam someone you should look at their history, it seems you must have a chip on your shoulder if you could not see that was a typo.

It might be a good time to look at the name of this topic.

Ethics vs Professionalism
 
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