european to american vlotage?

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tweakd

Member
Hi Everyone,
I am hoping that some can point me in the right direction so here goes. I bought a German machine for bending plastic...on the plate it says 380/220 and it is 3ph. Now it is about 25 years old and i believe the 380 was "standard" back then. Now my question is can i hook it up to 220 3ph which is what i have? I am told that the european 3ph uses a neutral and we do not. As you can tell i have know idea! To many people are telling me to many things. The machine is just heating elements, but it is run by timers and of coarse heater controls which i am sure are not 3ph. Please if anyone can tell me what to do i would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you
 
No you cannot in all likelihood.

For one thing, it's true, their system is 380V Y with the Phase to Neutral voltage being 220V. If they put that on the nameplate, the most common thing done in that case was to use 220V tapped off of one Phase and neutral as the control power. If you connect to 230V 3 phase, the P-N voltage will not work out, even if you find a 230/120V 3 phase system. You are just asking for trouble.

The frequency will be wrong as well. If it's from Germany, everything is based on 50Hz. We use 60Hz in the US. Coils on relays will overheat (assuming you deal with the voltage difference first), motors (i.e. cooling fans etc.) will spin at the wrong speed etc. etc.

Your voltage is wrong and in resistive heating elements that will mean less wattage in your process. So depending on the nature of the heating system, either it will take a LOT longer to heat up, or it will never heat up fully, or both.

What you can do is take it to a "panel shop" in your area who has experience in IEC conversions to have the controls and elements re-worked to fit your supply.
 
In my opinion....It won't work without re-wiring the machine for 220V 3 phase.
This would necessitate replacing most of the electrical components.

or

Buying a transformer to boost the incoming 220V to 380V.

Are you sure that you have 220V 3 phase?

If I were you, I'd hire a good electrician or engineer.

steve
 
let me step in for a min,, i am oringally from France so i can able help you with few details real quick


you state that you have 220 v really like 230 or 240 delta system ?? if so then what you have to do few choice is

get the transformer to boost up to 380 -400 volt range [ they have roughly +-10% tourance ]

check the contractors you may end up change the coils some case i did see they get overheated from diffrent HZ

most european control system are useally IEC so you have be little more carefull for slecting the coil and the OCPD as well because the the oringal OCPD may not able work with 60 HZ if it was calberated at 50 Hz unless it is dual marked like this " 50/60 " HZ

the motor will speed up 1/5 speed more
ditto with current as well if motor rated at 1500 rpm it will spin at 1800 rpm the same ratio for other speed as well

bottom line check all the control system to make sure they work properly if not may end up do some part swapping around to get it work properly

the heating element dont affect with HZ but just double check the voltage connection

if more info just drop the line here i will try to help you much as i can as the code allow

Merci , Marc
 
Wow thanks!
Well I say 220v, but who knows. I am going to test it this weekend. So from what you are saying it is best to just buy a ?step up? transformer and I should be able to hook it up and keep all the original wire? The ?contacts? on the heaters say 220v 50Hz 240v 60Hz. I would think that is a good thing. There are no motors of any kind; just two heating swords, heater controls and a timer so I do not think the Hz will hurt them. I would rather not try to change anything if I am able to keep the original wiring and just step up to it. Thanks again all your input is greatly appreciated!:grin:
 
Remember you must base your designs on the nominal supply voltage not what you actually measure (one reference is NEC 110.4). What you actually measure can change from day-day but the nominals are set in stone.

In the US it will be 208V, 240V, or 480V for three phase 3-wire and 208Y/120 and 480Y/277 for 4-wire wye connected systems.

In Europe it will be 380Y/220, 415Y/240, or 400Y/230 (the preferred "new" voltage) for three phase 4-wire systems.

All supply voltages are subject to the same +/- 10% swing so saying that a US system -10% is equal to a European system +10% is not a good design.
 
...heater controls and a timer so I do not think the Hz will hurt them.
Click to expand...

Don't be so sure. Like I said earlier, you MUST check the voltage rating of the control devices. Not what it can switch, but what the operating coils are rated for. In those older IEC systems, they typically used 220V control power derived from one of the phases and neutral. If you just buy a step-up transformer to boost your 220V Delta (what is found in the US) to 380V and are not aware of how to wire it to create that neutral on the 380V side, you will fry your control coils. i.e. the timer and heater controllers. Also, older 50Hz coils will last about a week or 2 on a 60Hz system. That may not be the case with newer designed coils, but it certainly was that way 25 years ago when this was built because I worked for a German control manufacturer and we had to replace nearly every 50Hz coil that came to the US on machines. ^0Hz rated coils can work on 50Hz systems OK, but 50Hz rated coils over saturate on a 60Hz system and overheat rapidly.
 
ok so it would be in my best interest to just buy the correct step up transformer to the original 380y 3ph 50HZ. I am told i can have the custom made. Some of the controls say 50/60HZ, but not all of them and i do not want any problems if i can help it. Thanks again for all of your replies:grin:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top