EV charging station

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sw_ross

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I have a customer that is interested in installing a commercial EV charger on their building. It would be the type that customers can plug into and pay (using an app?) to charge their vehicle.

This would be a new avenue for my business to get into that I think would be a productive venture.

Where does a an EC company get started for something like this?
Do you have to be an authorized contractor/installer? I’m kind of assuming so.

If so what EV charging companies are worth looking into and contacting?

I’m at ground zero for this kind of charger. I’ve installed your typical residential 50-amp 14-50R receptacle for charging but nothing commercial.

Thanks
 
He’s writing a proposal for 2 type 2 chargers and 2 “fast chargers”.

Initially he wants to get an assessment of the existing electrical setup for his building to see if it can handle the additional load.
 
Essentially, there’s not much difference residential vs commercial for level 2 EVSEs. Commercial are usually hard-wired instead of cord and plug.

DC fast chargers are a whole different ballgame. Installation requirements vary by manufacturer.

He needs to tell you what size(s) he wants to install before you can evaluate if there’s enough capacity.

Unless he’s in an area with inadequate public charging, I doubt it will be profitable.
 
Level 2 is quite different electrically from "[DC] fast chargers". Level 2 is quite easy: 240V, 50A breaker. However I think the tesla DC fast chargers require 440V and like 100A or more amps, and most businesses don't have this available. They tend to be at large hotels which already have lots of power available. (And there is an issue with the electric company, and the service into the building, which can be a costly upgrade, and a costly minimum monthly charge. So again, it often only really makes sense if they already qualify for the high electrical usage.)

Chargepoint are good units and more reliable than the rest. There is actually quite a lot of problems with most other chargers as they are not reliable. My girl friend is head of the local Electric Vehicle Association and we've done quite a lot of work on trying to get downed chargers fixed in Hawaii and here in California. I'm sure Chargepoint has an interface to work with an electrician, so I would start there. BTW, they also sell CHAdeMO (for cars like a Nissan Leaf) and CCS chargers (for Mustang MachE and Rivian and others), and that is probably what he is looking for. I think the Chargepoint units may be more expensive that others, but in my opinion are worth it. Also I think these chargers need a cellular signal available to be able to check users smart cards for authorization.

... But we don't use these anymore. Now we drive 2 Teslas (a Model 3 and a Model y) because the charging for them is so much more available and easier. Yes, we also have an adapter to plug into a J1772 level II charger for a backup solution, but don't often do that anymore. And at home we have a NEMA 14-50 outlet and charge with the Tesla charge cable supplied with the car, at 240V 32A which works great and is much cheaper (500% cheaper) than an equivalent gas car per mile.!
 
WaveGuide said:
Level 2 is quite different electrically from "[DC] fast chargers". Level 2 is quite easy: 240V, 50A breaker. However I think the tesla DC fast chargers require 440V and like 100A or more amps, and most businesses don't have this available. They tend to be at large hotels which already have lots of power available. (And there is an issue with the electric company, and the service into the building, which can be a costly upgrade, and a costly minimum monthly charge. So again, it often only really makes sense if they already qualify for the high electrical usage.)

Chargepoint are good units and more reliable than the rest. There is actually quite a lot of problems with most other chargers as they are not reliable. My girl friend is head of the local Electric Vehicle Association and we've done quite a lot of work on trying to get downed chargers fixed in Hawaii and here in California. I'm sure Chargepoint has an interface to work with an electrician, so I would start there. BTW, they also sell CHAdeMO (for cars like a Nissan Leaf) and CCS chargers (for Mustang MachE and Rivian and others), and that is probably what he is looking for. I think the Chargepoint units may be more expensive that others, but in my opinion are worth it. Also I think these chargers need a cellular signal available to be able to check users smart cards for authorization.

... But we don't use these anymore. Now we drive 2 Teslas (a Model 3 and a Model y) because the charging for them is so much more available and easier. Yes, we also have an adapter to plug into a J1772 level II charger for a backup solution, but don't often do that anymore. And at home we have a NEMA 14-50 outlet and charge with the Tesla charge cable supplied with the car, at 240V 32A which works great and is much cheaper (500% cheaper) than an equivalent gas car per mile.!
Click to expand...

CCS is the standard connection for DC charging.
All modern level 2 cars (except Tesla) use the J1772 standard for AC charging.

I can’t understand why Nissan doesn’t give up on CHAdeMO??? Electrify America announced they won’t support CHAdeMO on new stations.

I agree, ChargePoint is probably the preferred choice.
 
You very likely don't need manufacturer certification to install level II chargers.

You definitely need manufacturer certification to install 'fast chargers.' I would not jump into that if you've never done anything similar.
 
retirede said:
...

I can’t understand why Nissan doesn’t give up on CHAdeMO??? Electrify America announced they won’t support CHAdeMO on new stations.
Click to expand...
I guessing because CHAdeMO has become the defacto standard in Japan and they don't want to produce two styles? Maybe give it another year. I see possibly even Tesla switching to CCS Type 1 eventually, but not for a long time.
 
sw_ross said:
He’s writing a proposal for 2 type 2 chargers and 2 “fast chargers”.

Initially he wants to get an assessment of the existing electrical setup for his building to see if it can handle the additional load.
Click to expand...

I recently installed Blink EVSE’s at an office we built. They are open to the public, and Blink handles the billing. I’m not an expert on this stuff by any means, but I do know that Blink offers revenue share programs and they will also subsidize the cost of the equipment in some instances.

Our service was sized to run a 100A circuit to each pedestal, but they can also share a circuit and load balance for existing services that don’t have the capacity for a full 100A to each.

I don’t know the cost as the owner provided the equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the info.
I haven’t yet met with the customer regarding this project. Plan to meet on Friday.
I’m trying to learn as much as I can before meeting with him.

Is level 3 charging the same as a “fast charger”? It appears that the level 3 option is the one that the higher kW needs.
Can you do level 3 charging (assuming that’s the same as fast charger) with single phase service or does it typically require a 3-phase service?
 
sw_ross said:
Thanks for the info.
I haven’t yet met with the customer regarding this project. Plan to meet on Friday.
I’m trying to learn as much as I can before meeting with him.

Is level 3 charging the same as a “fast charger”? It appears that the level 3 option is the one that the higher kW needs.
Can you do level 3 charging (assuming that’s the same as fast charger) with single phase service or does it typically require a 3-phase service?
Click to expand...
Level 3 is DC fast charging. You need at minimum 480v system. They also start at like $50k/ea and go up significantly in cost from there.
 
sw_ross said:
Thanks for the info.
I haven’t yet met with the customer regarding this project. Plan to meet on Friday.
I’m trying to learn as much as I can before meeting with him.

Is level 3 charging the same as a “fast charger”? It appears that the level 3 option is the one that the higher kW needs.
Can you do level 3 charging (assuming that’s the same as fast charger) with single phase service or does it typically require a 3-phase service?
Click to expand...

Technically, there are level numbers that overlap for AC and DC charging. But almost everyone in the field today equates level 3 with DC fast charging. It’s been a while since I looked at the standards, but I believe if it’s DC 25kw or less, it’s level 2 DC (not to be confused with level 2 AC).

Level 3 DC is alway 3 phase, AFAIK.
 
brantmacga said:
Level 3 is DC fast charging. You need at minimum 480v system. They also start at like $50k/ea and go up significantly in cost from there.
Click to expand...
I'm only peripherally familiar with the market, but I see that fast chargers using CCS or Chademo are available with ratings of 25 kW to at least 250 kW. The quote above probably applies to DC Fast Chargers rated 75 kW and up, which is certainly what most people think of as Level 3.

But there are 25 kW models that do run on 208V, either single phase or 3 phase. That would be equivalent to 100A+ 240V EVSE, while the J1772 Level 2 standard maxes out at 80A, and most Level 2 EVSEs would be 32A or 40A. So still faster than what you can get with J1772, and over twice as fast as a typical Level 2. You might call that Level 2.5.

I did find a web page of one 50 kW DCFC that runs on 208Y/120V, so that is at least a possibility.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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