Everything Hot - How do they do that?

[busman]

Call late last night. Checking an intermittent problem with a receptacle. Get out the wiggy and extension cord for a reliable ground reference. Everything is hot - the hot wire, the neutral wire, the metal box, everything. Wondering how the HO has not been shocked yet. They say it has been this way more than a year. In addition to the one receptacle, there was also an outdoor receptacle and 2 switches with the same condition. I shut off the CB and am going back today.

This is a circuit fed with BX cable. Any bets on what I find? My guess is either an air-splice or a new plastic box. It just beats me how anyone can manage to both tie the neutral/ground together AND lose the bond of both of these to the panel. I'll post the photos when I find this. It's sure to be a good one.

Some days!

Mark

 

[e57]

I'll ponder to guess that the BX has only the hot is intact - and the voltage seen is through a load - possibly because the cable has been mashed in some way, or had a screw through it and blew the ground and neutral open.

 

[bkludecke]

I'm with e57, sounds like your reading through a load w/ open neutral.

 

[busman]

I had thought of that, but it doesn't explain the hot ground. Unless there is a bootleg neutral somewhere.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[celtic]

I'm saying a broken neutral also.

2 years ago, I ran into a similar situation...I was able to folow the wire BEHIND the sheetrocked walls using only a cheap "tick tester".

Give this thread an eyeball:
[Troubleshooting ~ elusive neutral ???]
http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=55836

.
It was NOT easy locating the break - but we did....2 floors below and on the opposite wall!

 

[satcom]

"I had thought of that, but it doesn't explain the hot ground. Unless there is a bootleg neutral somewhere."

Bootlegs we find are usually found at switch boxes, for example, Mr Slick installs recess lighting, and ties it into existing switch, with no neutral in switch box, they tie the neutral for the lighting to the box ground, and when the circuit neutral opens somewhere in the line the ground becomes lethal, this is something we find quite often, helps keep the cost of installation down, and keeps the boss happy when he under bids a recess job.

 

[busman]

The Answer

The Answer

Feel like I should have guessed this one. Turned out to be a bootleg neutral. A box lost its main feed, but had a hot feed for a swith leg. They used the switch leg for power to the entire box and bonded the neutral to the box. With the old BX, this explains the intermittent operation and the hot neutral/ground when the sheathing was not making a good return path. I still didn't find the problem with the feed. That's for another day.

Thanks,

Mark