EVSE Terminals

[TwistLock]

Picked up a clients EVbox EVSE today (Benz version). The line terminals are push in. Seems a little sketchy for continuous use equip .. no?
There’s no wire range listed just says use 4awg.
I spoke with EVbox’s weak sauce support and they said stranded is fine to insert without ferrule, though they have no documentation about using smaller gauges than 4awg, other than to say “…the engineer said it should be fine”.
I released one of the factory assembled push in terminals going to the J1772 and noted they used a crimped ferrule (about the diameter of a solid #10 fwiw).
Just wondering if these push in terminals are the trend, or just the cheapest way to manufacture.
In my case I can only give customer 24a and will be inserting #10 stranded lol - so (I guess) I’m not too worried about overheating.

 

[retirede]

Is this thing UL listed?

 

[TwistLock]

Oh sure.

 

[qcroanoke]

It Cleary states use 4 awg. I would set a box close by and connect 10 awg to 4 awg then go to charger

 

[TwistLock]

It Cleary states use 4 awg. I would set a box close by and connect 10 awg to 4 awg then go to charger

That would be the most prudent course. It was what I suggested, to support, would have to be done if actual EVSE equip matched pdf depiction of terminals. To which they couldn't concieve of any situation where smaller conductors would be run to their EVSE.
Before I took possession I was complaining about push in terminals, curious if they were listed in any way for smaller gauges. The whole time they kept saying #6 was the largest the terminals would accept. Then they got back to me later with #4 being the max but that #8 wold be fine too, but wouldn't supply any listing to back it up. According to EVbox the Benz version is 'slightly' different from their 'Livo' model it's rebranded from- that seemed to take them by surprise. I guess it's been recently introduced. Wonder if I'll be back in a year when they recall these.

 

[jaggedben]

Sounds sketchy that the people you are talking to seem to have no clue about EVSE basics.

If you put it on a 30A breaker with 10awg does the manual say how to commission it to limit the current?

 

[TwistLock]

The Benz EVSE pdf manual is lacking. Apparently you use the 'EVbox Install' app and it does list MercBenz box in app. The owner uses Mercedes 'Me' app.
During support phone call, (EVbox's online 'Chat' is a useless passive aggressive black hole) there seemed to be consensus that that was possible. But I'm beginning to think something's just not right.
And I can appreciate the heat sinking of #4 but why stab in connectors? Against those plastic housings #4 is just getting big enough to have a mind of its own for terminals soldered to a circuit board.
I'll have to wait for Monday to nail down commissioning or maybe bench-top the equip to see what the app has to offer.

*Unbeknown to me, client had already purchased vehicle, thought he could charge it in the wild, found himself at 4% waiting in long charge line at night and had it towed back to dealer. When I looked at job originally, I thought it was exploratory, and said EMS 'could' work. He tells me he wants to use Benz box by EVbox so I start my research. Went over to take some final measurements etc today and car is in garage and EVSE waiting in box and he hands me a check.

 

[qcroanoke]

Sounds sketchy that the people you are talking to seem to have no clue about EVSE basics.

If you put it on a 30A breaker with 10awg does the manual say how to commission it to limit the current?

If you can't adjust dc output I see a finger being pointed at you and if it kicks the breaker or fails in any way.

 

[wwhitney]

If you can't adjust dc output I see a finger being pointed at you and if it kicks the breaker or fails in any way.

EVSEs don't produce DC. They just have a contactor and pass through AC. They use a simple handshaking protocol to control when the contactor closes so the car can use its on-board charger to make DC to charge the battery, and so the EVSE can tell the on-board charger the maximum AC current it is allowed to draw.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[TwistLock]

I think what this probably comes down to is they may have their own dynamic load balancing since this Benz version/unit is fairly recent. I just did a quick search and see a Euro kit, but nothing North American centric. Wondering if support misunderstood my Energy Management questions (i.e. third party DCC /Blackbox etc) vs something they may offer.

 

[TwistLock]

 

[qcroanoke]

View attachment 2573121

Looks like you're good to go.

 

[TheCats]

That is a deeply flawed label.

It's quite odd to see "..(167F)" when it is universal to see 75C as a rating.
Is that terminal even large enough to properly accept 4 AWG?

 

[Todd0x1]

That is a deeply flawed label.

It's quite odd to see "..(167F)" when it is universal to see 75C as a rating.
Is that terminal even large enough to properly accept 4 AWG?

if its the terminal I think it is, theyre UL listed for 18ga to 4ga and 85 amps.

Note these are not a 'push in' type terminal, you have to use the tool or a small screwdriver in the little rectangle hole to hold the contact open when inserting the wire.

 

[ActionDave]

if its the terminal I think it is, theyre UL listed for 18ga to 4ga and 85 amps.

Note these are not a 'push in' type terminal, you have to use the tool or a small screwdriver in the little rectangle hole to hold the contact open when inserting the wire.

Looks the same to me too. I've made up wires with then on other pieces of equipment and they work fine.

 

[Todd0x1]

Looks the same to me too. I've made up wires with then on other pieces of equipment and they work fine.

Yeah, I have been around them in various high current applications for many years and have never seen an issue. Better than any type of threaded stud terminal thats going to put torque on the PCB when its tightened.

 

[TwistLock]

When I see threaded terminals in EVSE they're usually embedded in a plastic mold/shape to support torquing. To release one of these I did use a 'wasp' screwdriver, but reinserting (factory ferrule crimped) wire didn't require assistance. Using stranded though I think it would make sense to open tang while inserting. The image below, same as in supplied manual, does show just pushing wire in. Support also said "just push them in". Instructions below seem to be a mix of Euro text / with a single phase for N.A design becasue of passed through cable (?) - no tension relief is avalible nor is a 'gland' supplied on that side (there is a gland for network cables on left side).

 

[TheCats]

if its the terminal I think it is, theyre UL listed for 18ga to 4ga and 85 amps.

Note these are not a 'push in' type terminal, you have to use the tool or a small screwdriver in the little rectangle hole to hold the contact open when inserting the wire.

I've worked with the ChargePoint CT4000 EVSEs. They use Wago 2716 PCB terminal blocks, 'Cage Clamp', which is rated to accept up to 16 mm2 / 6 AWG, and using 6 AWG can be awkward without a ferrule/sleeve

 

[Todd0x1]

I've worked with the ChargePoint CT4000 EVSEs. They use Wago 2716 PCB terminal blocks, 'Cage Clamp', which is rated to accept up to 16 mm2 / 6 AWG, and using 6 AWG can be awkward without a ferrule/sleeve

Those ones are a bit difficult due to the angle the wire enters at. The terminals in OPs picture I think are Wago 2636

 

[TwistLock]

The case design of these doesn’t quite match the Wago brand (they could be custom by Wago or at least similar in specs to compete) but looking at the Wago push in terminal blocks mentioned their cut sheets say:
“ Push-in termination of solid, ferruled, and rigid-stranded conductors. “
“ Tool-actuated termination is performed parallel to conductor entry. “ (they differentiate by adding “tool-free” for lever versions).

I don’t have EVSE in front of me now but if I could find any brand markings that may help in identifying wire range, though that still doesn’t get me past that label without some supplied documentation.