Exemption from Texas electrical law

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bbb

Member
Do other US states exempt Chemical and petrochemical industry from state electrical licensing and compliance with NEC?

Why do I ask such a question? Texas legislators are in the process of passing this exemption.The idea strikes me as WRONG.

My first posting so you hardcore folks be kind.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

On the face of it, such legislation seems like a bad idea. On the other hand, I have not heard what the purpose of such legislation might be, or what codes might be used in place of the existing ones. It's very hard to make intelligent comment when only one side of an issue is presented.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Occupation
Master Electrician
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

Welcome bbb
We're a pretty easy going group here. If we starting having a problem with a poster, we'll not allow it.
I would suspect the answer to your question is money.
But in washinton state, we do not exempt petrochemical. However a business owner does not have to use certified electricians, but they still must take out permits and inspections, and comply with electrical laws and rules
 

mc5w

Senior Member
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

There are some states that exempt industrial electricians form having to have a license. Some states also exempt owner occupied businesses from having to hire licensed electricians.

However, I have found it rare for a personnel prick to hire an unlicensed electrician even if state law exempts a plant electrcian from licensing. This is just a matter that personnel pricks only care about how a person looks on paper because they have no ability to evaluate an aplicant's technical skills.

[ May 13, 2005, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: mc5w ]
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

Bob's comment is right on target. Most large industrials don't need any outside help since their rules are more stringent then the Code in most places. In other places, there are protection schemes that are not covered in the Code that they use and are safe. If that is the experience in Texas, it may not be a bad idea to treat them like a utility since we have no licensing requirements either. :D
 

bbb

Member
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

Thanks for the input.
Hoping to benefit from other states laws that addressed where code applies and already have history on results.

Far as issues why that is a interesting subject.
Currently in Texas (dramaticaly paraphrased)
Utilities are exempt and both sides agree.
Petrochemical employees are exempt but not outside electrical contractors.
The new exemption is for outside contractors and NEC in petro chemical.

We all know NEC is a minimum standard and being more stringent is OK. My thought why be exempt if you exceed the NEC standard?
Why not be licensed if your requirements exceed state standards?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

Perhap's it's a matter of practicality. Both of these industries require a lot of specialized knowledge that the local electrical inspector is unlikely to have. Both industries are also under a lot of scrutiny, and both tend to be relatively concious of safety concerns.

I don't see a huge problem for the state to say something along the lines of:

You are exempt from being inspected by local inspectors as long as you meet acceptable safety standards, and have your own inspection programs in place.
 

69boss302

Senior Member
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

I look at it this way. Most industrial facilities are what the state may call exempt from licensing electricians and such, we do not require licensed plumbers either. But if an outside contractor does work for us they are required to be licensed, as a condition by us for them to work in our facility.

We maintain our standards, our facility to OSHA standards and regulations. OSHA uses the NEC as a guidline for investigating and inspecting, even though they are not all that knowledgable on the NEC wiring methods all that well it seems. But if they found something worth questioning they would probably bring in a reliable source of their own. The industrial facility operates as it's own AHJ basically and quite possibly adopts the NEC anyway for doing installations. It's just that if the state requires licensing, then permits from the county, state or whomever would be required just to move a machine. This kind of thing happens to often within a manufacturing facility and not only would it be a hassle for the facility management, but it would put more undo paperwork and strain on the permit process so now when those doing residential or other work that do require permits, don't have to wait while some manufacturing guy stands in line in front of them with 25 permit requests while he is just waiting for 1.
 

rick hart

Senior Member
Location
Dallas Texas
Re: Exemption from Texas electrical law

Utilities and petrochemical are similar in that they are liable. Both have a huge financial investment that could kill if circumstances got out of hand.
Exempt from NEC- not hardly. A violation of basic NEC or NESC would send lawyers drooling to courts over an accident.
And another thing:
Why issue a license that already demonstrates a broad knowledge that would technically say you are qualified to work on 345kV or an ultra classified location? I'm a Texas master and think I'm a fairly sharp student of NEC and other codes. I wouldn't know the first thing about a wiring a refinery or transmission system from my certification and experience though.
Texas just recently went all state electrician license- with Houston kicking and screaming about opening up to contractors outside the area- and that may be where the exemption comes from.

It really doesn't matter though, it's all I can do to stay current with my field as it is.
Let the ones with the investment and liability train and employ who works within their confines. If these same people hire someone to come in and wire the office remodel however, they had better have a licensed electrical contractor.
By the same token, you would not want someone with just transmission or refinery experience wiring your house.
 
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