Existing Service with no Main Disconnect.

[Hndzs02]

I have a single family dwelling built in the early 50's. There is a 60A GE metered service panel with 8 branch circuit breakers, but no Main Disconnect.

Question:
1) Is this acceptible by NEC standards?
2) If so, what section of the code specifies this type of installation?
3) Does section 408.36, exception 3 apply?

 

[Sierrasparky]

It would not be compliant today.
I would bet that there are more breakers installed now then original.

The tell tale is the wire used and or breakers do they look original. Same era.
I did not know that the sheriffs dept had their own electricians.

 

[infinity]

I see this around here too. Original panel had no main but has 6 or less circuit breakers so it was code compliant. Later on someone came in and installed twin CB's and exceeded the limit of 6 without a main.

 

[Hndzs02]

I do agree that this is would not be compliant today. The breakers looked to be original to the panel, but did look like two circuits could have been added. The load side metered bus bars feed the load breakers ( no wires). The sheriff's has all trades within the department, with multiple stations, jail facilities and adminitrative offices, it keeps us busy year around.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have a single family dwelling built in the early 50's. There is a 60A GE metered service panel with 8 branch circuit breakers, but no Main Disconnect.

Question:
1) Is this acceptible by NEC standards?
2) If so, what section of the code specifies this type of installation?
3) Does section 408.36, exception 3 apply?

Question-- are you sure that one of the breakers isn't a main disconnect for the panel? Basically this is a back fed breakers and is permitted with a hold down kit. This would be 408.36(D)

Article 230.71 is the art. that references the 6 disconnect rule

 

[Hndzs02]

Yes, im sure. I can see the metered bus bars feeding the load breakers with no Main Disconnect between them. I have seen this before but i cannot find it in the code that specifies this installation. I think section 408.36 exception 3 is the closest i have seen that answers my question, but im not certain..

 

[kwired]

I see this around here too. Original panel had no main but has 6 or less circuit breakers so it was code compliant. Later on someone came in and installed twin CB's and exceeded the limit of 6 without a main.

Before NEC eliminated the "Lighting and appliance panelboard" terminology from the code (can't remember if it was 2005 or 2008) those six mains all had to be something other than 15 and 20 amp 120 volt circuits, otherwise the panel would be considered a lighting and appliance panelboard and would require a main. One of the easiest places to violate this used to be at baseball fields. There would often be 5 poles with lighting and a service panel with 5 mains - one for each pole. Then someone would come up with a great idea of wanting a 15 or 20 amp 120 volt receptacle next to the panel and by golly we have an open space to connect to. Adding that one circuit made the panelboard a lighting and appliance panelboard and it then required a main breaker. OOPs.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes, im sure. I can see the metered bus bars feeding the load breakers with no Main Disconnect between them.

That is not what I was saying. There may not be a main disconnect panel but one the sets of breakers in the main lug panel may be back fed and thus is the main.

I posted the article that allows 6 disconnects in my above post

 

[GoldDigger]

That is not what I was saying. There may not be a main disconnect panel but one the sets of breakers in the main lug panel may be back fed and thus is the main.

I posted the article that allows 6 disconnects in my above post

So the question is not what feeds the branch breakers, but whether the wires from the meter connect directly to the bus bars or to the "output" side of a large breaker. If by "metered bus bars" you are referring to bus bars with wires from the meter connected to lugs on the bus, then you are correct.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So the question is not what feeds the branch breakers, but whether the wires from the meter connect directly to the bus bars or to the "output" side of a large breaker. If by "metered bus bars" you are referring to bus bars with wires from the meter connected to lugs on the bus, then you are correct.

I am talking about the service conductors from the meter connecting directly to a double pole breaker (back-fed), in the existing panel, with a tie down as required by 408.36(D). That is now the main breaker for the panel and thus you can have as many branch circuits as the panel and load can handle.

 

[kwired]

I am talking about the service conductors from the meter connecting directly to a double pole breaker (back-fed), in the existing panel, with a tie down as required by 408.36(D). That is now the main breaker for the panel and thus you can have as many branch circuits as the panel and load can handle.

Something tells me the mentioned "metered bus bars" are effectively the service entrance conductors and attach directly to the meter.

But you are correct if a breaker would happen to be "back fed" then it is the one and only main.

 

[hurk27]

I do agree that this is would not be compliant today. The breakers looked to be original to the panel, but did look like two circuits could have been added. The load side metered bus bars feed the load breakers ( no wires). The sheriff's has all trades within the department, with multiple stations, jail facilities and administrative offices, it keeps us busy year around.

Something tells me the mentioned "metered bus bars" are effectively the service entrance conductors and attach directly to the meter.

But you are correct if a breaker would happen to be "back fed" then it is the one and only main.

I agree with you as the OP in post 4 above clearly said bus bars fed directly from the meter, so this should be like a combo meter and 8 space panel board that was intended to have 4 double pole breakers to feed other panels or 240 volt loads.

Here is the rule from the 2002 NEC:

408.14 Classification of Panelboards.
Panelboards shall be classified for the purposes of this article as either lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboards or power panelboards, based on their content. A lighting and appliance branch circuit is a branch circuit that has a connection to the neutral of the panelboard and that has overcurrent protection of 30 amperes or less in one or more conductors.
(A) Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard. A lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard is one having more than 10 percent of its overcurrent devices protecting lighting and appliance branch circuits.
(B) Power Panelboard. A power panelboard is one having 10 percent or fewer of its overcurrent devices protecting lighting and appliance branch circuits.

And

408.16 Overcurrent Protection.
(A) Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard Individually Protected. Each lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be individually protected on the supply side by not more than two main circuit breakers or two sets of fuses having a combined rating not greater than that of the panelboard.
Exception No. 1: Individual protection for a lighting and appliance panelboard shall not be required if the panelboard feeder has overcurrent protection not greater than the rating of the panelboard.
Exception No. 2: For existing installations, individual protection for lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboards shall not be required where such panelboards are used as service equipment in supplying an individual residential occupancy.

Exception 2 might apply if this is a dwelling and protection wasn't required at the time the house was built, but still would have to comply with the six movements of the hand, so you could have two double poles and 4 single poles (230.71) even with the exception.

 

[Cavie]

I have a single family dwelling built in the early 50's. There is a 60A GE metered service panel with 8 branch circuit breakers, but no Main Disconnect.

Question:
1) Is this acceptible by NEC standards?
2) If so, what section of the code specifies this type of installation?
3) Does section 408.36, exception 3 apply?

Just changed one out this past week. This was a very common set up in the 50's and 60's in Florida. 900 SQ FT , all gas, 2 bedroom 1 bath block home. Four 110 volt ckts to the house. Usually #12 wire. Metered directly to the buss bar. 4 fuses or breakers installed.