Existing Service

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darhym

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Hi- I have searched but I'm coming up dry on this one---
In Canada, since the 1980's the CEC does not permit a residential service
to be installed on the exterior of the home. The combination panel in question was installed on the building exterior and passed inspection pre-1980's. This particular customer wants to add a garage and air conditioner to the existing service. As per NEC, is it legal to add circuits to an existing service that does not pass current code requirements? Thanks
 
I agree with MD--unless you know something we don't know? Example: the existing service has some safety concerns? Also, it wouldn't hurt to contact the AHJ.!
 
480sparky said:
Have you done some calcs to see if the service can handle the additional load?
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The service is 200 amp, so I don't see a problem there.
I have been rifling through the CEC to try to locate any rules concerning this issue, but have not found anything pointing to it.:confused:
 
darhym said:
The service is 200 amp, so I don't see a problem there.
I have been rifling through the CEC to try to locate any rules concerning this issue, but have not found anything pointing to it.:confused:
Click to expand...

I don't see why 'a 200 amp service' automatically provides sufficient power. I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
 
darhym said:
The service is 200 amp, so I don't see a problem there.
I have been rifling through the CEC to try to locate any rules concerning this issue, but have not found anything pointing to it.:confused:
Click to expand...

I don't see why 'a 200 amp service' automatically provides sufficient power. I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
 
darhym said:
The service is 200 amp, so I don't see a problem there.
I have been rifling through the CEC to try to locate any rules concerning this issue, but have not found anything pointing to it.:confused:
Click to expand...

I don't see why 'a 200 amp service' automatically provides sufficient power. I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
 
480sparky said:
I don't see why 'a 200 amp service' automatically provides sufficient power. I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
Click to expand...

You very very rarely see a residential service over 200 A in Canada unless the home is of an exceptional size. The next service size here is 400 amp , which requires CT metering. We just don't do it that way, at least in Saskatchewan. Perhaps it's because we base services on demand load % and cyclical, intermittent loads.
 
480sparky said:
I don't see why 'a 200 amp service' automatically provides sufficient power. I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
Click to expand...
Stand back from the home 100 feet. If you hold up your thumb, and if it covers the house, that's 100 amp. If you need both thumbs to cover up the house, that's 200 amp. If both thumbs do not cover up the house, that's gonna take a 400 amp. That's the rule of thumb.
 
mdshunk said:
Stand back from the home 100 feet. If you hold up your thumb, and if it covers the house, that's 100 amp. If you need both thumbs to cover up the house, that's 200 amp. If both thumbs do not cover up the house, that's gonna take a 400 amp. That's the rule of thumb.
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Leave it to Marc to use a tape measure for service calculations! :grin:

BTW, what happended to 1313 Mockingbird Lane? :confused:

Edit to add: Hey! I got a triple-play!
 
480sparky said:
I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
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I'd be curious to see the load characteristics of a home that truly required a 400 amp service.

Quite a few homes around here with 400 amp services don't actually need them since most of our heating is done with gas or oil. The 400 amp service is usually installed because of the sheer number of circuits, and two 40-circuit panels next to each other looks impressive. ;)

Some poco's will here will treat a 400 amp service no different that a 200 amp service on their end of things.
 
480sparky said:
I don't see why 'a 200 amp service' automatically provides sufficient power. I've done plenty of home that require a 400a service from the get-go. Just because it's a 200, doesn't mean there's an ample supply of extra capacity.
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Ken, you can't up your post count by tripple posting.....that's cheeeating. :grin:

I've seen you do doubles, but this is shameless. ;)
 
frizbeedog said:
Ken, you can't up your post count by tripple posting.....that's cheeeating. :grin:

I've seen you do doubles, but this is shameless. ;)
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I don't do doubles. It's my computer, Mike's server, or something in between. The forum is set up so you can only post once every 60 seconds. Look close, and all 3 posts are the same time.

I'll have to look at my post count more often before I reply and see if this hiccuping counts as one or two (or int thise case, three!).

I've asked the mods how this happens, and have never found out what causes it.
 
peter d said:
I'd be curious to see the load characteristics of a home that truly required a 400 amp service.....
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All (or mostly) electric appliances. Geo-thermal heating. In-floor electric heat. Hot tub. Whirlypool (maybe two!) with in-line heaters. 6-burner electric stove. Viking fridge & freezer. Double electric oven. 180 can lights. 60x120 heated shed w/ workshop. Well for water. Mechanical septic system. Pond aereator. The list goes on......
 
480sparky said:
All (or mostly) electric appliances. Geo-thermal heating. In-floor electric heat. Hot tub. Whirlypool (maybe two!) with in-line heaters. 6-burner electric stove. Viking fridge & freezer. Double electric oven. 180 can lights. 60x120 heated shed w/ workshop. Well for water. Mechanical septic system. Pond aereator. The list goes on......
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Well that's far, far away from being an average or even a way above average house...that is off the charts! ;)

Even so, we know that the NEC will produce an larger service than necessary to serve a home with stuff like that. I'm curious what size transformer that poco uses on such a house.
 
mdshunk said:
Stand back from the home 100 feet. If you hold up your thumb, and if it covers the house, that's 100 amp. If you need both thumbs to cover up the house, that's 200 amp. If both thumbs do not cover up the house, that's gonna take a 400 amp. That's the rule of thumb.
Click to expand...
So if it takes both hands 1600A??? What if the home were a tower? Multi-family the same?
 
peter d said:
Well that's far, far away from being an average or even a way above average house...that is off the charts! ;)

Even so, we know that the NEC will produce an larger service than necessary to serve a home with stuff like that. I'm curious what size transformer that poco uses on such a house.
Click to expand...

What the POCO does isn't my concern, I gotta be honest. Most of the time, they put in the smallest xfrmr they have, which can handle 4 or 5 200a services. Usually, the houses I do that need a 400a service are on large acreages anyway, so they're on their own xfrmr. I can't recall doing a 400a service and parking on the street.
 
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