Existing water line and panel

[wrobotronic]

Hi all,
is there a section in the code that will allow an existing copper water line to run above a new panel installation. I spoke with the electrician today and we determined that the ball valve that is there would be better off moved, but as the AHJ, I merely suggested it as I don't know that it is required to move it per the NEC. You can see the wood backer is where the new panel will go. As always thank you for your time.

 

[cpinetree]

Are you allowing the existing panel to stay where it is? The water line runs over it as well.

Really should have them comply by providing protection, to protect electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.

2011 NEC 110.26(E)(1)(b)

Maybe something as simple as a gutter, so the water will run to either side?

 

[wrobotronic]

Hello,
thank you for the response. My solution to the protection of the equipment was to move the ball valve and have one continuous piece of water pipe running across all of the equipment (existing and new). Thus no joints or fittings that may leak. But I do like the suggestion of a gutter, so I will talk to the GC about it. Thank you again. You guys are so nice, even when I post a silly/easy question.
Cheers,
wrobo

 

[charlie b]

Providing protection, as suggested, would not make the installation code-compliant. You have a violation now, and putting a new panel next to the existing one would merely duplicate the violation. This is not just about protecting the panel against leaks. It is also about leaving room for the future installation of conduits. Starting at the top of the panel, the next six feet upwards must remain clear of foreign systems. The pipe is less than six feet above the panel, and that is the violation of which I speak. Reference 110.26(E)(1)(a).

There is, however, an easy solution. Since it has been suggested that the ball valve be moved, I infer that there will be a plumber working on the project. All you need to do is to take the pipe out of service, cut it on the right side of the existing panel and again on the left side of the new panel's location, and extend it so that it is at least 8 inches away from the wall. The pipe is allowed to be above the working space in front of the panel, so long as it is at least 6' - 6" above the floor.

 

[david luchini]

Hello,
thank you for the response. My solution to the protection of the equipment was to move the ball valve and have one continuous piece of water pipe running across all of the equipment (existing and new). Thus no joints or fittings that may leak. But I do like the suggestion of a gutter, so I will talk to the GC about it. Thank you again. You guys are so nice, even when I post a silly/easy question.
Cheers,
wrobo

Even with a gutter for protection, the new (and existing panel) will not comply with 110.26(E)(1)(a).

You can make the new panel comply by having it stand-off from the wall so that the pipe is "behind" the dedicated electrical space.
Looking at the picture, though, I'd probably give them a pass from 110.26(E)(1)(a). There's plenty of room to route conduits.

Edit: Charlie's solution is better than mine.

 

[wrobotronic]

Providing protection, as suggested, would not make the installation code-compliant. You have a violation now, and putting a new panel next to the existing one would merely duplicate the violation. This is not just about protecting the panel against leaks. It is also about leaving room for the future installation of conduits. Starting at the top of the panel, the next six feet upwards must remain clear of foreign systems. The pipe is less than six feet above the panel, and that is the violation of which I speak. Reference 110.26(E)(1)(a).

There is, however, an easy solution. Since it has been suggested that the ball valve be moved, I infer that there will be a plumber working on the project. All you need to do is to take the pipe out of service, cut it on the right side of the existing panel and again on the left side of the new panel's location, and extend it so that it is at least 8 inches away from the wall. The pipe is allowed to be above the working space in front of the panel, so long as it is at least 6' - 6" above the floor.

Charlie, thank you. What section would I cite for the 8 inch off the wall requirement? I have the 6'6" requirement. I like this solution as I did not know about this requirement because there is conduit already there. However, if I can make the water pipe come off the wall 8 inches and cite a code section to back me up, that would be the best solution. Thank you.

 

[charlie b]

I already cited the relevant article: 110.26(E)(1)(a). That does not set 8 inches as a requirement. What it does say is that the area directly above the panel has to be clear of pipes. I picked the number 8 inches as a way of making sure the pipe is not directly above the new panel. It is likely that 6 inches is enough. Most 120/208V branch panels are less than 6 inches deep. But I don't know the dimensions of the new panel being installed, so I guessed a bit larger.

 

[charlie b]

. . . I did not know about this requirement because there is conduit already there.

Just to be clear on this point, it is OK for conduit from other panels and serving other circuits to be above the panel. It is the copper water pipe that is the problem.

 

[wrobotronic]

I understand. The solution is clear. Thank you very much for your insights. I appreciate all of your help in making me a better inspector. Merry Christmas....