Experience with the Tyco NM Connectors?

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josquin

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A buddy told me about a product called "Tyco NM Connector" which, supposedly, can be used to splice two runs of NM cable together in a finished wall without a junction box.

I find it impossible to think this is allowed, but according to 334.40, maybe it is?

The product documentation is here: http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/NM_Connector_Presentation_Rev3_Web.pdf

What would be the consequences of arc'ing happening in a finished wall, not in a box. I don't know how well I'd sleep...

Are inspectors passing this? Anyone using these things?
 
josquin said:
A buddy told me about a product called "Tyco NM Connector" which, supposedly, can be used to splice two runs of NM cable together in a finished wall without a junction box.
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Yes it is true, you can 'fish' them into a finished wall of an existing building.

Check out 334.40(B), it lists the limited conditions that they can be used.
 
Ever check out the UL listing on these devices?

NONMETALLIC-SHEATHED CABLE INTERCONNECTORS (QAAV)
Nonmetallic-sheathed Cable InterconnectorsQAAVGENERAL
This category covers self-contained interconnectors employing pressure cable connectors, insulation displacement or insulation piercing connectors for splicing or tapping nonmetallic (NM) sheathed cable. These interconnectors are intended for installation in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code."
These devices have been investigated for equivalency to Type NM cable in insulation and temperature rise, and for capability to withstand fault currents, vibration and mechanical shock that may occur during transport of the units in which they are used.
Click to expand...

Are they listed as if they were actually the wire itself ?
 
What would make these products only acceptable if concealed and fished? If they are good enough to floating around in a wall somewhere, why can't they be located in attic spaces, crawspaces, or basements?
 
A topic of discussion and research that has been 'ongoing' for about a week and a half. Attempts to clarify the UL info are hopefully, forthcoming.

"Fishing" to a guy that has spent a lot of tool time seems to translate into 'old work'; now, why would a 'splice' have to be made in a cable that is 'fished'??

The text from Amp/Tyco seems to say 'surface mount'......

Also, you guys that require AFCI....any input??
 
bphgravity said:
What would make these products only acceptable if concealed and fished? If they are good enough to floating around in a wall somewhere, why can't they be located in attic spaces, crawspaces, or basements?
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According to the document:

Permitted Uses:
? Where Type NM cable is permitted, and:
?Exposed cable wiring in new work and
re-work applications.
?Re-wiring in existing buildings where
cable is concealed and finished.
?Installation and interconnection of
modular components of manufactured
buildings and homes, mobile homes, and
recreational vehicles.
 
bphgravity said:
What would make these products only acceptable if concealed and fished? If they are good enough to floating around in a wall somewhere, why can't they be located in attic spaces, crawspaces, or basements?
Click to expand...

334.40(B) "shall be permitted to be used without boxes
in exposed cable wiring and ..." seems to cover it.
 
These are the same device that we see used when connecting the wiring for different sections of modular homes. They have been around for many, many years.

If you do not like the product, the NEC does not say you have to install it.

I see more of these installed today than in the past, still mostly in Modular homes.
 
Pierre:
The debate that I have a part in is regarding the 'proposed use' of the Amp device within a 'stick-built' house (single family resi)

An EC intends to use this device as a part of a remodel job, and we (AHJ's) are attempting to find documentation on the UL stance for this device in a single family dwelling (NOT modular/mobile).

The mfg documentation refers to language included within the above posts on this thread, so no use repeating that. I thought it was ironic that the topic came up here. And as 'Josquin' has no location visable in his info, I doubt that he is the EC that made the request here.

No debate as to use in mod/mobile, but 'fished' is still questionable in my mind. IF someone was 'fishing' why would they have an in-line splice??

Please no 'smart' fishin comments guys!

Iwire: What do you think??

:)
 
John Arendt said:
Iwire: What do you think??
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John I have battled with Joe T over this product, IMO the NEC allows it in stick built homes.

IMO 334.40(B) 2005 and the listing info makes that clear.

That does not mean I like it or understand it. :-?

I have always wondered why if it is OK for mobile homes why it was not OK for stick built homes. That to me was a double standard.
 
John Arendt said:
Pierre:
The debate that I have a part in is regarding the 'proposed use' of the Amp device within a 'stick-built' house (single family resi)

An EC intends to use this device as a part of a remodel job, and we (AHJ's) are attempting to find documentation on the UL stance for this device in a single family dwelling (NOT modular/mobile).

The mfg documentation refers to language included within the above posts on this thread, so no use repeating that. I thought it was ironic that the topic came up here. And as 'Josquin' has no location visable in his info, I doubt that he is the EC that made the request here.

No debate as to use in mod/mobile, but 'fished' is still questionable in my mind. IF someone was 'fishing' why would they have an in-line splice??

Please no 'smart' fishin comments guys!

Iwire: What do you think??

:)
Click to expand...

http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/NM_Connector_Presentation_Rev3_Web.pdf
Go to the link and check out page 9 and 11. Seems clear to me.
 
iwire said:
John I have battled with Joe T over this product, IMO the NEC allows it in stick built homes.

IMO 334.40(B) 2005 and the listing info makes that clear.

That does not mean I like it or understand it. :-?

I have always wondered why if it is OK for mobile homes why it was not OK for stick built homes. That to me was a double standard.
Click to expand...

One reason might be that mobiles lend themself to repairs from under it.Personally i see them as garbage and fire starters jmo.
 
Acrwc10:
Thanks for another link, it's in the printer now.
(edit) That is the best info I have seem. More detailed than what I found at AMP/Tyco site within the last week & 1/2.

Gentlemen:
Thank you for your opinions.

:smile:
 
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mivey said:
Look at the tap-off shown on page 11. Would you tie-wire that? It looks like it could get in a strain.
Click to expand...

page 8 claims: "Strain relief cover is securely locked in
place by screws or latch ? no need to tape, tie, or
otherwise secure the cover closed."

I've never used these, but it looks like the strain will be
relieved by the screws.
 
mivey said:
Look at the tap-off shown on page 11. Would you tie-wire that? It looks like it could get in a strain.
Click to expand...

Would "I" tie wire it ? I am not sure I would even use it. It says you don't have to support them.I see them as having there place in the market, I just wonder how reliable they are long term ? Has anyone had to deal with a trouble call that one of these turn out to be the cause ? They just remind me of "PEX" water pipe connectors. Is it Me ???????
 
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