i posted a message like the following last nite or so i thot but it doesn't show today. would someone please explain as to how the neutral is really supposed to work. that might explain why i had a problem with a house i am rewiring. 3 ways were used for both ends of kitchen. 14/2 was used as travelers, not 14/3 that i am used to. a neutral from a different ckt was run to kit ceiling lt. this worked fine until i replaced 2 slot receptacles on ckt with grounded receptacles. placed a gfi at first receptacle. when either of 3 ways in kitchen were flipped, gfi would trip. why would gfi trip? ckt worked fine before i placed gfi at first receptacle.
explain how neutral works
- Thread starter ronson
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Re: explain how neutral works
Ronson you got replies and the post is still up, but new posts push older ones back in the list.
Here is your post
How does a Neutral Work
Ronson you got replies and the post is still up, but new posts push older ones back in the list.
Here is your post
How does a Neutral Work
Re: explain how neutral works
tony & bob, i would still like to know how the neutral wire works. have never had anyone give me an explanation that fully satisfied my curiosity. if the neutral is not supposed to be carrying any current as i think my electrical books said, then how can the gfi read anything? the books said that "theoretically", one should not be shocked by touching a neutral but i know from firsthand experience that this is not true. also, for example, picture current flowing to a receptacle. when the receptacle is unused, would no current would flow through to the neutral? if so, why does this not trip the gfi at the first of the ckt? when the receptacle is used, would the neutral only receive a portion of the 120 volts, since an appliance, etc. will use a portion of the 120 volts?
tony & bob, i would still like to know how the neutral wire works. have never had anyone give me an explanation that fully satisfied my curiosity. if the neutral is not supposed to be carrying any current as i think my electrical books said, then how can the gfi read anything? the books said that "theoretically", one should not be shocked by touching a neutral but i know from firsthand experience that this is not true. also, for example, picture current flowing to a receptacle. when the receptacle is unused, would no current would flow through to the neutral? if so, why does this not trip the gfi at the first of the ckt? when the receptacle is used, would the neutral only receive a portion of the 120 volts, since an appliance, etc. will use a portion of the 120 volts?
caosesvida
Senior Member
Re: explain how neutral works
check through the posts of the last three weeks the neutral was covered completely. Either this subject or another, do a search.
check through the posts of the last three weeks the neutral was covered completely. Either this subject or another, do a search.
Re: explain how neutral works
Ranson, you said a neutral is not supposed to be carrying any current. This is not true. The equipment grounding conductor shouldn't carry current, so maybe you have them mixed up. The neutral (grounded conductor) carries all the load in a single phase circuit like you are talking about, and the imbalance current in a three-phase circuit. A balanced three-phase circuit is the one case where a neutral won't carry current, if perfectly balanced. If the neutral is grounded, such as your example, the voltage on it should just be from voltage drop so shouldn't shock you. But something could be wired wrong, or a system doesn't have a solidly grounded neutral, so I wouldn't assume a white wire is safe to touch.
For the GFI, I think you are using the neutral from the load side of the GFI to the light, but the hot to the light is from another source. This trips the GFI because its hot and neutral current are not the same. That circuit setup wasn't a good idea even without the GFI problem. See this post for a discussion of the 2-wire traveller.
Ranson, you said a neutral is not supposed to be carrying any current. This is not true. The equipment grounding conductor shouldn't carry current, so maybe you have them mixed up. The neutral (grounded conductor) carries all the load in a single phase circuit like you are talking about, and the imbalance current in a three-phase circuit. A balanced three-phase circuit is the one case where a neutral won't carry current, if perfectly balanced. If the neutral is grounded, such as your example, the voltage on it should just be from voltage drop so shouldn't shock you. But something could be wired wrong, or a system doesn't have a solidly grounded neutral, so I wouldn't assume a white wire is safe to touch.
For the GFI, I think you are using the neutral from the load side of the GFI to the light, but the hot to the light is from another source. This trips the GFI because its hot and neutral current are not the same. That circuit setup wasn't a good idea even without the GFI problem. See this post for a discussion of the 2-wire traveller.
Re: explain how neutral works
Ronson,
Absolute Neutral:
Neutral carrying unbalance load current:
Two wire circuit, Grounded conductor is not a Neutral. Same as in a GFCI.:
Roger
[ February 24, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
Ronson,
here are a few drawings.
Absolute Neutral:
Neutral carrying unbalance load current:
Two wire circuit, Grounded conductor is not a Neutral. Same as in a GFCI.:
There would also be no current flowing out the ungrounded condutor.
Roger
[ February 24, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
Re: explain how neutral works
thanks for replies everybody. will have to run new 14/2 hot to two 3-way switches by back door that were in middle of receptacle run. whoever originally installed 14/2 ran hot for lighting from one receptacle box in middle of run to switches, cutting white neutral short on both ends and using only black hot. this is part of reason no current was passing back through gfi but it still might have been a problem since 14/2 was used as travelers and neutral would have had to have been picked up from original hot 14/2 run to light fixture to begin ckt. might not be much of a problem to run new hot to switches but there is a 3' duct running from one end of house to the other end right up against where rafters & joists meet. will have to crawl around one end of duct & then crawl another 30 feet to top of switches. ain't looking forward to that.
thanks for replies everybody. will have to run new 14/2 hot to two 3-way switches by back door that were in middle of receptacle run. whoever originally installed 14/2 ran hot for lighting from one receptacle box in middle of run to switches, cutting white neutral short on both ends and using only black hot. this is part of reason no current was passing back through gfi but it still might have been a problem since 14/2 was used as travelers and neutral would have had to have been picked up from original hot 14/2 run to light fixture to begin ckt. might not be much of a problem to run new hot to switches but there is a 3' duct running from one end of house to the other end right up against where rafters & joists meet. will have to crawl around one end of duct & then crawl another 30 feet to top of switches. ain't looking forward to that.
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