Extending neutral wire for AFCI install

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Scott in Round Rock

Scott in Round Rock

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Please point me to the approved methods to extend a neutral in a load center in order to retrofit a standard breaker with an AFCI. I've rewired a sub panel by rearranging the breakers a bit, but I'd rather extend a short wire than to have almost no slack in it.

I'm thinking solder and heat shrink insullation.

To future proof a new installation:

Is it a common recomendation now to leave the wires equal length and "coil" the extra length of neutral if the bus bar is closer than the distance the load wire has to travel to get to the breaker? I would think as new breakers come into the market, it will be more common to wire the neutral and load to the breaker and pigtail to the bus, as in the AFCI.

Thanks -Scott
 
Wire Nuts

Wire Nuts

Thanks... someone in NY once told me that, other than those already in a load center, additional mechanical connectors were not allowed. Perhaps this was a best practice and not strict code.

This calls for the next question. With the extra room the AFCIs require, is there a limit to the number of pigtails you can have in a box? I'm picturing along the lines of three 12/2s and a dimmer in a standard depth box. -Scott
 
Solder

Solder

Good question - the thinking was based on the no mechanical connector "best practice" an inspector in NY told me. My own feeling is that the correct wirenut would be the best approach.

But, to avoid having to extend the neutral, it would be nice if installers would leave the extra length on them!

I'm still a little dizzy on all the extra wire and space used by AFCIs. Reminds me of the wiring I see around a kids train set.
 
AFCI do stick out a ways.

The pertinent Code section is:
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices

Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.
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In my opinion, the cross-section between the end of the AFCI breaker and the enclosure wall gets small and thought must be given to arranging the panel to keep the conductors in that cross-section within limit.
 
Al,
In my opinion, the cross-section between the end of the AFCI breaker and the enclosure wall gets small and thought must be given to arranging the panel to keep the conductors in that cross-section within limit.
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If the panel is 3" deep and the space between the breaker and the side wall of the panel was only 1", the 40% fill would permit 90 #12 THHNs in that space.
Don
 
Yes Don,

And if my 3 - 4/0 conductors to the 200 A main are there, the # 12 count drops to 17.
 
Scott in Round Rock said:
To future proof a new installation:

Is it a common recomendation now to leave the wires equal length and "coil" the extra length of neutral if the bus bar is closer than the distance the load wire has to travel to get to the breaker? I would think as new breakers come into the market, it will be more common to wire the neutral and load to the breaker and pigtail to the bus, as in the AFCI.
Click to expand...
Leaving extra "coils" of neutrals in a panel leads to a sloppy, difficult to work in panel, IMO. I think future electricians would rather have a neat, clear place to splice in jumpers (if needed in the future) than a wad of extra conductors to sort through, IMO.

Here are some similar topics you can visit:

Thread: Making the Panel Pretty
Thread: A few panels minus two

Edit to add: Don't let some of the disjointed parts of the conversations get to you, in the linked threads. They were written under an old version of software, and in the conversion to new software it wound up erasing some of the comments when people quoted each other.
 
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AFCI best practices

AFCI best practices

After upgrading a couple panels to AFCIs, I wished and wondered:

-) Marked neutrals. There was so much wire shoved together that it took extra work to determine which neutral belonged to which load. I wish the installer had marked them. I spent an extra hour trying to route things better.

-) I'm looking for a recommendation on a "true" AFCI tester. I read the story from Fox, but was wondering if other companies such as IDEAL have an AFCI tester now that it has been a few years. I need to add one to my kit.

-) Would the test button on the AFCI still trip if the neutral wasn't from the wire pair? I suppose I could test.. This worries me the most.

-) Why the combined Cutler Hammer GFCI/AFCI was smaller than just the AFCI.

Now that GFCI receptacles have lock out, it would be good to see an indicator on an AFCI that the trip was due to a an arc and not an overload so a homeowner will know they may need to call an electrician.

-Scott
 
Scott in Round Rock said:
-) I'm looking for a recommendation on a "true" AFCI tester. I read the story from Fox, but was wondering if other companies such as IDEAL have an AFCI tester now that it has been a few years. I need to add one to my kit.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing other than the ones included in the breaker.

All the AFCI 'testers' on the market are actually UL listed as AFCI indicators and may or may not trip a working AFCI.

-) Would the test button on the AFCI still trip if the neutral wasn't from the wire pair? I suppose I could test..This worries me the most.
Click to expand...

If you have grabbed the wrong neutral the GFCI part of the AFCI will trip as soon as a load is applied.

All AFCIs have a GFCI in them although the trip is in the 30 to 40 ma range.
 
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