Extension Cords

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kkwong

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A coworker has happened on to a problem. Apparently an insurance carrier allows extension cords as "permanent" status as long as the cord is under 8'. I thought that you could not have a "policy" that was in opposition to the NEC. Has anyone else ran in to this?
 
kkwong said:
A coworker has happened on to a problem. Apparently an insurance carrier allows extension cords as "permanent" status as long as the cord is under 8'. I thought that you could not have a "policy" that was in opposition to the NEC. Has anyone else ran in to this?
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An insurance company can do whatever it chooses, as NEC does not have the force of law.
 
I?m not sure I understand the situation. My insurance company would never walk through my home and declare that it would only renew my policy if I made some changes. In what sense would they know about the use of an extension cord, and why would they care?

But let me submit, tallguy, that the NEC does indeed have the force of law. It is not the same kind of a law that could, for example, get you a $100 fine and 3 days in jail for driving under the influence of alcohol. It is not ?criminal law,? or whatever the right term would be, but instead it is more like ?administrative law.? It is the kind of law that could prevent you from getting power turned on to your house, if for example, you did a major remodel and the electrical inspector noted one or more NEC violations.
 
Charlie-This insurance company insures schools. Some of the schools in my area were built back in the '50's. However, because of increased power demand, they are utilizing extension cords. This insurance company is allowing 8' extension cords and limiting the length of surge supressor cords to 8'.
 
kkwong said:
A coworker has happened on to a problem. Apparently an insurance carrier allows extension cords as "permanent" status as long as the cord is under 8'. I thought that you could not have a "policy" that was in opposition to the NEC. Has anyone else ran in to this?
Click to expand...

Since there is nothing that prevents someone from installing a "permanent" extension cord of any length, perhaps this is just them acquiescing to the inevitable.

Some of us forget that what is plugged into the outlet is not part of the premises wiring, thus is not covered by the NEC. Some other codes generally prohibit the use of extension cords for other than temporary use, but not the NEC.

In all reality, there is nothing inherently unsafe about using an extension cord, permanently or otherwise. You could certainly use one in a way that was unsafe, but you could also use one in a way that is quite safe.
 
charlie b said:
But let me submit, tallguy, that the NEC does indeed have the force of law. It is not the same kind of a law that could, for example, get you a $100 fine and 3 days in jail for driving under the influence of alcohol. It is not ?criminal law,? or whatever the right term would be, but instead it is more like ?administrative law.? It is the kind of law that could prevent you from getting power turned on to your house, if for example, you did a major remodel and the electrical inspector noted one or more NEC violations.
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Agreed... but none of it is relevant unless and until a jurisdiction adopts and incorporates the NEC into its building codes by reference. The question though, is regarding insurance companies. TTBOMK, there are no laws that force insurance companies to rely on the NEC for anything. They choose to do so, as it is in their best interests to have something meaningful to utilize in this regard. Maybe I am splitting hairs?
 
Is there anything in the NEC that prohibits extension cords? I mean other than requiring so many receptacles that extension cords aren't needed.

That seems somewhat out of the NEC's scope.

Steve
 
steve66 said:
Is there anything in the NEC that prohibits extension cords? I mean other than requiring so many receptacles that extension cords aren't needed.

That seems somewhat out of the NEC's scope.

Steve
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It is clearly not within the scope of the NEC unless you were to make it part of the premises wiring system in some way. An extension cord plugged into an outlet on one end and a lamp on the other end is not part of the premises wiring.
 
Considering the fact the insurance company is, in effect, saying that they are willing to take the financial risk if something goes wrong, I wouldn't worry.

If this was such a risk, I really don't think they would insure it.
 
My insurance company would never walk through my home and declare that it would only renew my policy if I made some changes.
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Oh but i know some that will, and have!!! Small town agents love taking a Sunday drive to look for unneccesary risks.
 
How about an extension cord plugged into a garage door opener? Ran through a hole in the ceiling, through the attic, out another hole, and down to the only outlet in the garage.

Sucker caught on fire, torched two cars, trashed the attic, smoked up the house pretty bad.

Lady lives by herself and fell out of her wheelchair trying to get out, and she managed to crawl to safety.
 
charlie b said:
... My insurance company would never walk through my home and declare that it would only renew my policy if I made some changes....
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Apparently, you don't know insurance companies very well. A couple of years ago, they did one of their "Sunday drive-by's" and sent me a letter about my place.

They said I needed a railing on my side steps, as well as a complete fence around my back yard. Since I had a trampoline in the back yard, they considered it an "attractive nuisance hazard" and it required a fence. :mad:

No way, I simply removed the trampoline. :roll:

As for the steps, I had to contract with a local aluminum railing outfit and have them install some.

Otherwise, they were going to decline renewal of my insurance if I did not comply.

As a side note, I have had several service upgrade jobs due to homeowners receiving letters from their insurance companies about outdated fuse boxes. Seems they were going to apply a 50% premium surcharge if the homeowner did not get a new breaker box installed by a licensed electrician. Of course, all the fuses were "properly sized 30's!!

Those are the types of letters I enjoy hearing about!! :grin:
 
kbsparky said:
Apparently, you don't know insurance companies very well. A couple of years ago, they did one of their "Sunday drive-by's" and sent me a letter about my place.

They said I needed a railing on my side steps, as well as a complete fence around my back yard. Since I had a trampoline in the back yard, they considered it an "attractive nuisance hazard" and it required a fence. :mad:

No way, I simply removed the trampoline. :roll:

As for the steps, I had to contract with a local aluminum railing outfit and have them install some.

Otherwise, they were going to decline renewal of my insurance if I did not comply.

As a side note, I have had several service upgrade jobs due to homeowners receiving letters from their insurance companies about outdated fuse boxes. Seems they were going to apply a 50% premium surcharge if the homeowner did not get a new breaker box installed by a licensed electrician. Of course, all the fuses were "properly sized 30's!!

Those are the types of letters I enjoy hearing about!! :grin:
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I can't say I blame the insurance company for those kind of letters. The situations you described actually do increase their risk. the cost should be put on the person creating the risk.
 
Minuteman said:
How about an extension cord plugged into a garage door opener? Ran through a hole in the ceiling, through the attic, out another hole, and down to the only outlet in the garage.

Sucker caught on fire, torched two cars, trashed the attic, smoked up the house pretty bad.

Lady lives by herself and fell out of her wheelchair trying to get out, and she managed to crawl to safety.
Click to expand...

Why would such a thing in and of itself catch on fire?
 
charlie b said:
My insurance company would never walk through my home and declare that it would only renew my policy if I made some changes.
Click to expand...
kbsparky said:
Apparently, you don't know insurance companies very well.
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But I do know mine. :grin: There are no ?agents,? and the nearest employee is over 2000 miles away. They only offer insurance to US military officers and their families. Been with them for 30+ years, and my father was with them for 30+ years before me.
 
petersonra said:
Why would such a thing in and of itself catch on fire?
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I don't know for sure if the the cord was the cause, but the cord was fried the whole length and the investigators cut the duplex and j-box out that it was plugged into. The opener was fried too.

I have pics at the office.
 
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