exterior wall outlets..residential
- Thread starter jnsh2
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed outdoors must be GFCI protected. There is one exception for snow-melting or deicing equipment that are not readily accessible.
Is it possible that the contractor meant that only one needed to be an actual GFI, and then the rest could be protected from that one receptacle?
[ September 19, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed outdoors must be GFCI protected. There is one exception for snow-melting or deicing equipment that are not readily accessible.
Is it possible that the contractor meant that only one needed to be an actual GFI, and then the rest could be protected from that one receptacle?
[ September 19, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
All need protected.However you could use 1 gfci receptacle to protect all of them on the load side
All need protected.However you could use 1 gfci receptacle to protect all of them on the load side
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
OK .when is an in use cover req.If there is a cable oulet is an in use required ? To me yes.
OK .when is an in use cover req.If there is a cable oulet is an in use required ? To me yes.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
For wet locations, and no.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
in use covers are required for any items that will stay plugged in,water pump,outdoor lights,x mass lights,hot tub..
I see nothing to require them if they are for general use and unplugged after use.
A few might argue that they might be used during a rain.My problem with them is they are costly and poor quality
in use covers are required for any items that will stay plugged in,water pump,outdoor lights,x mass lights,hot tub..
I see nothing to require them if they are for general use and unplugged after use.
A few might argue that they might be used during a rain.My problem with them is they are costly and poor quality
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
I know this thread started off asking how many outdoor receptacles had to be GFI protected and I believe that was answered. But, somehow we drifted off onto the requirements of "in use" (bubble) covers. From the way I read 406.8 (A & B) if a receptacle is located outdoors in a protected area (i.e under a roofed porch)it can be covered with a standard weatherproof cover (whether it has a plug in it or not). However, where a receptacle is subject to driving rain or water run-off it must utilize a bubble cover.
Now, here's the rub :
a) Your customer just built a 1 million dollar house. Who's gonna want one or two of those ugly bubble covers on the front of their new home ?
b) How do you, the electrician, know if this receptacle is going to be utilized to plug in Xmas lights (unless they're on either side of the front door) or a landscape lighting transformer ?
c) Should you ( the electrician) be cited for a violation (up front) with the assumption that at some point in time these receptacles are going to be utilized as "in use" ?
d) If the front receptacles on either side of the door are switched (obviously you know they're going to be utilized for Xmas lights) would you install bubble covers to pass inspection and remove them at the customer's request after the inspection ?
Didn't mean to throw a wrench into this. Just curious to know what some others think.
Thanks,
Phil
I know this thread started off asking how many outdoor receptacles had to be GFI protected and I believe that was answered. But, somehow we drifted off onto the requirements of "in use" (bubble) covers. From the way I read 406.8 (A & B) if a receptacle is located outdoors in a protected area (i.e under a roofed porch)it can be covered with a standard weatherproof cover (whether it has a plug in it or not). However, where a receptacle is subject to driving rain or water run-off it must utilize a bubble cover.
Now, here's the rub :
a) Your customer just built a 1 million dollar house. Who's gonna want one or two of those ugly bubble covers on the front of their new home ?
b) How do you, the electrician, know if this receptacle is going to be utilized to plug in Xmas lights (unless they're on either side of the front door) or a landscape lighting transformer ?
c) Should you ( the electrician) be cited for a violation (up front) with the assumption that at some point in time these receptacles are going to be utilized as "in use" ?
d) If the front receptacles on either side of the door are switched (obviously you know they're going to be utilized for Xmas lights) would you install bubble covers to pass inspection and remove them at the customer's request after the inspection ?
Didn't mean to throw a wrench into this. Just curious to know what some others think.
Thanks,
Phil
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
You guys must be working off of the '99 code. The '02 code requires "in use" covers for all 15 and 20 amp, 125 or 250 volt outdoor receptacles.
You guys must be working off of the '99 code. The '02 code requires "in use" covers for all 15 and 20 amp, 125 or 250 volt outdoor receptacles.
Don
inspector 102
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Indiana
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
I would agree that wet location receptacles require in-use covers regardless. The receptacle that is located on the front porch under a roof would be considered a damp location as defined in 406.8(A). Some discretion could be applied when determining "subject to beating rain or water runoff" and I think that is where the confusion is between contractors and inspectors. The requirements for a damp location states that the weatherproof cover requirement is when the plug is not inserted.
I have advised contractors that I will not accept outdoor receptacles without in use covers if there is a transformer cord or other use at the time of inspection. I can advise, but not control, what happens after I leave the job site. I log on the report what covers are provided.
I would agree that wet location receptacles require in-use covers regardless. The receptacle that is located on the front porch under a roof would be considered a damp location as defined in 406.8(A). Some discretion could be applied when determining "subject to beating rain or water runoff" and I think that is where the confusion is between contractors and inspectors. The requirements for a damp location states that the weatherproof cover requirement is when the plug is not inserted.
I have advised contractors that I will not accept outdoor receptacles without in use covers if there is a transformer cord or other use at the time of inspection. I can advise, but not control, what happens after I leave the job site. I log on the report what covers are provided.
silverromex
Member
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
[ September 20, 2004, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: silverromex ]
[ September 20, 2004, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: silverromex ]
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
Originally posted by goldstar:
Now, here's the rub :
a) Your customer just built a 1 million dollar house. Who's gonna want one or two of those ugly bubble covers on the front of their new home ?
Who says you have to use the ugly bubble-style ones? I've used them, and I agree that they are ugly, but I've also seen some metal ones that hinge on top, seal with gaskets, and completely cover the receptacles whether they are in use or not. They would serve the same purpose as the bubble ones and don't look so bad.
b) How do you, the electrician, know if this receptacle is going to be utilized to plug in Xmas lights (unless they're on either side of the front door) or a landscape lighting transformer ?
When I acquire the ability to see into the future like that, I'll certainly patent it. I'll license it to you for a small fee, since you seem like a nice guy.
You can't be held accountable if someone decides to do something with their electrical system that is against code. All you can do is install it properly and hope they don't violate code at some point in the future.
c) Should you ( the electrician) be cited for a violation (up front) with the assumption that at some point in time these receptacles are going to be utilized as "in use" ?
As long as your installation was done according to code, I don't see how you can be cited based on what a homeowner might do in the future.
d) If the front receptacles on either side of the door are switched (obviously you know they're going to be utilized for Xmas lights) would you install bubble covers to pass inspection and remove them at the customer's request after the inspection ?
No. Inspections are not supposed to be dog & pony shows. Once something passes inspection, it's supposed to stay that way. Making changes after it passes constitutes illegal work, and if the changes themselves constitute a code violation, you won't have a leg to stand on if you get caught.
Originally posted by goldstar:
Now, here's the rub :
a) Your customer just built a 1 million dollar house. Who's gonna want one or two of those ugly bubble covers on the front of their new home ?
Who says you have to use the ugly bubble-style ones? I've used them, and I agree that they are ugly, but I've also seen some metal ones that hinge on top, seal with gaskets, and completely cover the receptacles whether they are in use or not. They would serve the same purpose as the bubble ones and don't look so bad.
b) How do you, the electrician, know if this receptacle is going to be utilized to plug in Xmas lights (unless they're on either side of the front door) or a landscape lighting transformer ?
When I acquire the ability to see into the future like that, I'll certainly patent it. I'll license it to you for a small fee, since you seem like a nice guy.
You can't be held accountable if someone decides to do something with their electrical system that is against code. All you can do is install it properly and hope they don't violate code at some point in the future.
c) Should you ( the electrician) be cited for a violation (up front) with the assumption that at some point in time these receptacles are going to be utilized as "in use" ?
As long as your installation was done according to code, I don't see how you can be cited based on what a homeowner might do in the future.
d) If the front receptacles on either side of the door are switched (obviously you know they're going to be utilized for Xmas lights) would you install bubble covers to pass inspection and remove them at the customer's request after the inspection ?
No. Inspections are not supposed to be dog & pony shows. Once something passes inspection, it's supposed to stay that way. Making changes after it passes constitutes illegal work, and if the changes themselves constitute a code violation, you won't have a leg to stand on if you get caught.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
Many people(including myself) seem to agree on a 45 degree "rule" from the edge of the overhang to the wall. Within or above the line is damp and below is wet.
Sometimes damp vs. wet rivals that other monumental discussion as to what is workmanlike manner
Many people(including myself) seem to agree on a 45 degree "rule" from the edge of the overhang to the wall. Within or above the line is damp and below is wet.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
Larry that seems like a very reasonable approach.
I will keep that in mind.
Larry that seems like a very reasonable approach.
I will keep that in mind.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
I'm sorry, I was trying to make a point sarcastically. The difference between wet vs. damp is not clear in the NEC. It is one of those things left to the AHJ to interpret.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
Thanks, BobOriginally posted by iwire:
Larry that seems like a very reasonable approach.
I will keep that in mind.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: exterior wall outlets..residential
Read 406.8 A. It says shall have a cover for attachment cap when not inserted,that1s the key word not inserted.Soffit receps are for holiday lighting.You know real well that with a switch they will be left plugged in.Here if the recep is protected from direct run off or within 6 ft of the edge of the porch/lanai then a reg wp cover but t.v. receps in these areas get an in use cover.Same thing it will be left plugged in.
Read 406.8 A. It says shall have a cover for attachment cap when not inserted,that1s the key word not inserted.Soffit receps are for holiday lighting.You know real well that with a switch they will be left plugged in.Here if the recep is protected from direct run off or within 6 ft of the edge of the porch/lanai then a reg wp cover but t.v. receps in these areas get an in use cover.Same thing it will be left plugged in.
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