FACP Location

[chris kennedy]

I do not own NFPA 72. I have a set of plans that show this PNL at the main entrance next to the annunciator AND in the electric room by phone board.

During a phone call with the F/A contractor today I was told it was "illegal" to put it in the electric room.

What?

 

[mdshunk]

During a phone call with the F/A contractor today I was told it was "illegal" to put it in the electric room.

Why in the world every specialist contractor wants his own mechanical room still confounds me. This is all I can find on the matter. I'm pretty sure NFPA 72 is another one of the one's that's free to read online.

------------

4.4.4 Performance and Limitations.
4.4.4.1 Voltage, Temperature, and Humidity Variation. Equipment
shall be designed so that it is capable of performing its
intended functions under the following conditions:
(l)*At 85 percent and at 110 percent of the nameplate primary
(main) and secondary (standby) input voltage(s)
(2) At ambient temperatures of 0?C (32?F) and 49?C (120?F)
(3) At a relative humidity of 85 percent and an ambient temperature
of 30?C (86?F)
4.4.4.2 Installation and Design.
4.4.4.2.1" All systems shall be installed in accordance with the
specifications and standards approved by the authority having
jurisdiction.
4.4.4.2.2 Devices and appliances shall be located and
mounted so that accidental operation or failure is not caused
by vibration or jarring.
4.4.4.2.3 All apparatus requiring rewinding or resetting to
maintain normal operation shall be restored to normal as
promptly as possible after each alarm and kept in normal condition
for operation.
4.4.4.2.4 Equipment shall be installed in locations where
conditions do not exceed the voltage, temperature, and humidity
limits specified in 4.4.4.1.
Exception: Equipment specfically listed for use in locations where
conditions can exceed the upper and lower limits specified in 4.4.4.1
shall be permitted.
4.4.4.3 Transient Protection. To reduce the possibility of damage
by induced transients, circuits and equipment shall be
properly protected in accordance with the requirements of
NFPA 70, National Electrical Code, Article 800.
4.4.4.4" Wiring. The installation of all wiring, cable, and
equipment shall be in accordance with NFPA 70, NationalElectrical
Code, and specifically with Articles 760, 770, and 800,
where applicable. Optical fiber cables shall be protected
against mechanical injury in accordance with Article 760.
4.4.4.5 Grounding. All systems shall test free of grounds.
Exception: Parts of circuits or equipment that are intentionally and
permanently grounded to provide ground fault detection, noise suppression,
emergency ground signaling, and circuit protection ground
ing shall be permitted.

 

[celtic]

It it were central station monitoring, manned (if I recall) it would need it's own room.
An everyday run-of-the-mill FACP goes where it fits :smile:

 

[chris kennedy]

Thanks looker upper. I forgot about NFPA online. I'll give that a shot.

 

[mdshunk]

It it were central station monitoring, manned (if I recall) it would need it's own room.

I think that might be more of a UL thing, rather than an NFPA72 thing. Not sure. I think the UL sora blesses the whole room for central station use, and not just the equipment in it.

 

[chris kennedy]

Why in the world every specialist contractor wants his own mechanical room still confounds me.

Same reason voice/data guy needs a 2 1/8 box with two 3/4 stub ups for 2 cat 5's.

 

[iwire]

Here in MA it is against the rules to locate the FACP in the electric room.

About 20 years ago in Boston there was an electrical fire in the main electric room of a large Hotel, guess where the FACP was.

The fire took out the FACP almost immediately leaving an occupied Hotel with out a fire alarm system while the building had a working fire.

Since that time FACPs are not installed in electrical rooms. I have never seen the actual wording and I don't know if it applies to all occupancies or just some.

We can not install Article 700 systems in 'normal' electrical rooms either without a 2 hour fire wall separating the equipment.

IMO both of these rules are good design ideas if not requiments in your area.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

NYC also doe not permit FACP or equipment in the electric room/closet. I am sure that different jurisdictions treat this differently. That leaves one to check with the local AHJ (could be fire marshal) to identify what the requirements are.

 

[chris kennedy]

IMO both of these rules are good design ideas if not requiments in your area.

I fully agree with your post. But you are the first to point out minimum requirements for installs.

The owners would have no problem installing a 2 hour wall between systems. Its an 8X20 room with just MDP and PNL AC. Cost them $2000 to keep FACP out of the clubs main entrance.

 

[iwire]

I fully agree with your post. But you are the first to point out minimum requirements for installs.

Without a doubt, but my question is do you know for sure that is not a requirement in your area as well.

Just because you may not have seen it enforced before does not mean it is not a fact.

In my area this would be a quick call to the local fire department for the answer. :smile:

 

[chris kennedy]

Without a doubt, but my question is do you know for sure that is not a requirement in your area as well.

Just because you may not have seen it enforced before does not mean it is not a fact.

In my area this would be a quick call to the local fire department for the answer. :smile:

This is why I summon the expertise of this Forum.

I mount the F/A contractors equipement, they wire them. Problem is the GC and owners trust me. Again I'm not a 72 guy. Thats not my final to get. But a timely CO is of great concern to me.

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am...

 

[iwire]

I am sure that different jurisdictions treat this differently. That leaves one to check with the local AHJ (could be fire marshal) to identify what the requirements are.

I agree. :smile:

4.4.4.2 Installation and Design.

4.4.4.2.1" All systems shall be installed in accordance with the specifications and standards approved by the authority having jurisdiction.

 

[cadpoint]

Its the things they didn't say !

Its the things they didn't say !

During a phone call with the F/A contractor today I was told it was "illegal" to put it in the electric room.

I sure hope you asked him several questions, one burnt me. (verb pun)

Said I only needed one conduit home to building entrance door FACP. Granted it was only an upfit within a larger structure, but it still hurts to have to bring in a blow out crew to run more two conduits cause the slacker didn't realize all the equipment that was to talk to the FACP.

Door strikes, HVAC, flasher and horns, UPS Room and or the specifications,
(and no they weren't on the job) I forgot why now, but I do remember asking him twice are you sure just one condu ... Oh well ...

 

[LV grider]

Same reason voice/data guy needs a 2 1/8 box with two 3/4 stub ups for 2 cat 5's.

We do that to keep you busy, otherwise you might try to drum up business in a field you know nothing about.

 

[BushCreaM]

NYC also doe not permit FACP or equipment in the electric room/closet. I am sure that different jurisdictions treat this differently. That leaves one to check with the local AHJ (could be fire marshal) to identify what the requirements are.

You are allowed to install FACP or other equipment in an electrical room/closet in NYC. Just curious of how you came up with that one.

 

[DUCKMAN]

Here in MA it is against the rules to locate the FACP in the electric room.

About 20 years ago in Boston there was an electrical fire in the main electric room of a large Hotel, guess where the FACP was.

The fire took out the FACP almost immediately leaving an occupied Hotel with out a fire alarm system while the building had a working fire.

Since that time FACPs are not installed in electrical rooms. I have never seen the actual wording and I don't know if it applies to all occupancies or just some.

We can not install Article 700 systems in 'normal' electrical rooms either without a 2 hour fire wall separating the equipment.

IMO both of these rules are good design ideas if not requiments in your area.

I do not disagree with the logic, but where is the rule prohibiting it? Building Code?

 

[chris kennedy]

I just installed 4 F/A panels in the same room as my MDP. I agree it would be a better design to put them elsewhere.

BTW This is the install that started this thread. I'll get pics. if anyone is interested.