Failed inspection, ahj said i need a egc

[BeachBum]

Hello, appreciate the forum
I recently had an inspector fail me bc/ he said the Florida building code required me to run a new ckt back the the panel. The customer, a friend that i didn't charge, bumped a room out 6'(residential). The room already had a homerun in it(2wire no egc), so I added afci receptacle and gfci receptacle. He said the Florida building code requires additions to have a ground wire and can't use existing cable if it doesn't have a ground. I'm skeptical but new to contracting so he may be correct. Thanks

 

[ptonsparky]

Not just Florida.
Don’t cut corners. Even on freebies.

 

[roger]

The inspector is correct.

 

[infinity]

The NEC allows branch circuit extensions in existing installations even when the existing circuit has no EGC if it complies with 250.130(C).

250.130 Equipment Grounding Conductor Connections.
Equipment grounding conductor connections at the source of separately derived systems shall be made in accordance with 250.30(A)(1). Equipment grounding conductor connections at service equipment shall be made as indicated in 250.130(A) or (B). For replacement of non–grounding-type receptacles with grounding-type receptacles and for branch-circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in 250.130(C).

250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions.
The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
(4)An equipment grounding conductor that is part of another branch circuit that originates from the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
(5)For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
(6)For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
Informational Note: See 406.4(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuit-interrupting type of receptacle.

 

[Fred B]

What wiring method was incorporated on the original install? EMT or AC the wiring method is or can be the EGC.

 

[roger]

The NEC allows branch circuit extensions in existing installations even when the existing circuit has no EGC if it complies with 250.130(C).

and for branch-circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in 250.130(C).

The problem with that is the OP says the room was enlarged so that part is not existing.

 

[infinity]

and for branch-circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in 250.130(C).

The problem with that is the OP says the room was enlarged so that part is not existing.

The wording is somewhat fuzzy but the branch circuit wiring that is already there is certainly an "existing installation".

 

[roger]

The wording is somewhat fuzzy but the branch circuit wiring that is already there is certainly an "existing installation".

I wouldn't think the inspector had a problem with that part.

 

[BeachBum]

Inspector came back and said that if I bring an egc to the homerun box then I'll be okay. I'm not going to argue, seems futile. I'll see if I can't find one around there. Thanks for POV's
They say that those that bother you most can teach you the most(Don’t cut corners. Even on freebies.).

 

[mtnelect]

In California it's getting harder to circumvent the permit process. When you put your house on the market, you now have to fill out a form (With Penalty of Perjury) that requires you to document any work that was done after you moved in, including permit information. Without permit information, that improvement doesn't exist, and appraisals excludes that improvement.

 

[letgomywago]

You can pull a ground from a near by grounded circuit still also. Is there one that is accessible in the attic or near by on the addition such as an ac disconnect. If there is one you an pipe over from it with 1/2 inch conduit and not break the bank

 

[mtnelect]

You can pull a ground from a near by grounded circuit still also. Is there one that is accessible in the attic or near by on the addition such as an ac disconnect. If there is one you an pipe over from it with 1/2 inch conduit and not break the bank

I think you mean grounding circuit ?
Give it up ... It's old wiring, and the insurance companies will not cover it without a very high premium.

 

[letgomywago]

I think you mean grounding circuit ?

You're right.

Circuit with an EGC not a nuetral

 

[letgomywago]

I think you mean grounding circuit ?
Give it up ... It's old wiring, and the insurance companies will not cover it without a very high premium.

Lol

 

[electrofelon]

I think you mean grounding circuit ?
Give it up ... It's old wiring, and the insurance companies will not cover it without a very high premium.

How do they know what type of wiring you have? I've never known of one to come and look.

 

[letgomywago]

How do they know what type of wiring you have? I've never known of one to come and look.

How old is old and how new is new.
Today I had to replace 40 year old wiring nm-b that was toasted by a burnt wirenut. It was old and busted. I pulled out a 110 year old feed to an old well pump 2 years ago. The rigid it was ran in I reused since it checked out low ohm and both sides I could unthread and rethread no rust at all on the inside. The wire was undamaged completely no cracking but they wanted a second multiwire for lights and a yard outlet and that old rubber took to much room. I pulled a ground with it too but no mud or water came out when i pulled it all. I truly believe that wire could have lasted another 40 to 50 years.

 

[ptonsparky]

How do they know what type of wiring you have? I've never known of one to come and look.

Maybe the label that said 'GFCI Protected, No Equipment Ground'.

 

[Strathead]

How do they know what type of wiring you have? I've never known of one to come and look.

You've never heard of a home inspector? They are notorious for making up codes and usually commissioned by insurance companies or banks for potential buyers, or both.

 

[Joe.B]

In California it's getting harder to circumvent the permit process. When you put your house on the market, you now have to fill out a form (With Penalty of Perjury) that requires you to document any work that was done after you moved in, including permit information. Without permit information, that improvement doesn't exist, and appraisals excludes that improvement.

A California wide rule? Or just a So Cal rule? I live in CA and have never heard of such a thing. If that's a new law I need to research it.

 

[Eddie702]

To me once you add on to a room you have to look at the whole room and bring the whole room up to code if the room is gutted. If it is not gutted only the addition needs to be brought up to code.

I look at the use of a GFCI on an ungrounded circuit is if you want to add a receptacle or two onto an ungrounded circuit not for a room addition