Fan rated 3/0 pancake?

J

JoeNorm

Senior Member
Location
WA
Inspector brought to my attention that I now need fan rated boxes in the ceiling in habitable areas. Wow, talk about a stupid new rule.

I had to use a few 3/0 pancake boxes in places and I cannot seem to find a fan rated version. Anyone know of one?

Did I mention how stupid this rule is. Thanks
 
It's not a new rule, the requirement for fan boxes to be listed for the purpose has been around since before 2002, 314.27.
 
JoeNorm said:
Inspector brought to my attention that I now need fan rated boxes in the ceiling in habitable areas.
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That's not 100% accurate. You need them in an area that would be acceptable to mount a ceiling fan in the first place. For example in an area where you would install pendant lights like over a bedroom nightstand or a kitchen counter a regular box is sufficient.
 
roger said:
It's not a new rule, the requirement for fan boxes to be listed for the purpose has been around since before 2002, 314.27.
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The rule was and still sort of is for when the box provides sole support for the fan. NEC played with wording a little maybe around 2011-2017 and kind of made it so that providing a fan rated box at rough in made life easier with many inspectors. I don't remember if it was actually in code or if it was more of a local AHJ thing but if a box had more than one ungrounded lead supplying it they assumed it was intended for ceiling fan and wanted to see a fan rated box. Reading current wording of 2023 I still don't see you must have a fan rated box though it may be simplest option most of the time. Arlington cathedral ceiling boxes comply with wording in there - the fan is not supported by the box but they allow access through the box to structural member behind the box to support the fan from.

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What Kwired posted.

Use option #2 and install your regular box on a 2x4 cross member.





(C) Boxes at Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fan Outlets.

Outlet boxes or outlet box systems used as the sole support of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall be listed, shall be marked by their manufacturer on the interior of the box as suitable for this purpose, and shall not support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than 32 kg (70 lb). For outlet boxes or outlet box systems designed to support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than 16 kg (35 lb), the required marking shall include the maximum weight to be supported.
Outlet boxes mounted in the ceilings of habitable rooms of dwelling occupancies in a location acceptable for the installation of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall comply with one of the following:
  • (1)
    Listed for the sole support of ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans
  • (2)
    Installed so as to allow direct access through the box to structural framing capable of supporting a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan without removing the box
 
The reason I used a pancake in the first place is because the location sits right on a Truss. I cannot cut the truss, hence the pancake. So the fact that it is on the truss satisfies the code? What does " access through the box" mean?

This is a highly designed house, with specific light fixtures already chosen that only work with certain boxes.

For the NEC to require fan rated boxes where fans will not go is IMHO very silly.
 
JoeNorm said:
The reason I used a pancake in the first place is because the location sits right on a Truss. I cannot cut the truss, hence the pancake. So the fact that it is on the truss satisfies the code? What does " access through the box" mean?
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Did you point that out to the inspector? If you can use screws directly into the truss the box is not an issue.
 
Ponchik said:
why would that be an issue? Are there times that one can not mount to the bottom of the truss?
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That's what I said, it would not be an issue, However if the box is in fact being used to support the fan is where the listing comes into play.
 
Arlington has all kinds of fan rated junk.

I ran across one recently that was a plastic nail on (Arlington) that mounted the fan with 8/32 screws. looked no different than a standard nail on to me. I didn't think it was fan rated so I ripped it out. To my surprise it had a fan rated sticker on it. How you can mount a fan to something like that is beyond me? I can't do it.
 
I thought the rule for having a fan rated box installed in an area suitable for a fan (excluding framing being the support) was when you ran a 3 conductor cable. At least that's how it's enforced here.
 
Ponchik said:
What Kwired posted.

Use option #2 and install your regular box on a 2x4 cross member.

  • (2)
    Installed so as to allow direct access through the box to structural framing capable of supporting a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan without removing the box
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I agree 1000%. But I got tired of arguing with inspectors. Easier for us to just use the Arlington FB412, which is 1.25" depth and works perfectly here, where ceilings are strapped. (3/4" firring under the joists, which is the norm here in central MA, but rare anywhere else.)

I preferred to use a 4" octagon mounted to a 2x4, with a 1/4" notch. It saves a couple dollars, but is "better" imo for mounting lights.
 
Eddie702 said:
Arlington has all kinds of fan rated junk.

I ran across one recently that was a plastic nail on (Arlington) that mounted the fan with 8/32 screws. looked no different than a standard nail on to me. I didn't think it was fan rated so I ripped it out. To my surprise it had a fan rated sticker on it. How you can mount a fan to something like that is beyond me? I can't do it.
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Those have been around for a while. I wouldn't particularly care to mount a fan on it. Especially where ceilings here use strapping (as in my last post) so nails in the box barely catch the bottom of the joist.
 
ActionDave said:
Do you know the part number for that box? If it is a fan rated box it has to take 10-32 screws or allow the fan to be supported independent of the box.
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I did have the # written down but can't find it. They were definatly 8/32 screws and the box just had 2 nails. I was very surprised it had the "fan rated sticker" inside . I will look for it
 
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