Farm generator question

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gadfly56 said:
Except, the service disconnecting means doesn't appear to be at the buildings.
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The only thing OP has that might apply to 547 is the "barn". So what does that make the rest? No overcurrent protection in the isolating device - so the isolating device is not the service disconnect.
 
kwired said:
The only thing OP has that might apply to 547 is the "barn". So what does that make the rest? No overcurrent protection in the isolating device - so the isolating device is not the service disconnect.
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Is a service disconnect required to be an OCPD?
 
brantmacga said:
just leave the generator off and have the customer manually start it and throw the switch.
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That's the simplest way to use a generator with this setup...
Using an ATS complicates the setup.

My query is that if you have a "whole-farm" generator and set it up by the meter (isolating switch) with an ATS, that ATS becomes the service for the whole farm?
You don't have 4-wire setups for each structure. Grounds and neutrals aren't separated in panels.
How does this affect your setup when service is now at the meter?
Adding the 4th wire is unlikely to happen.
 
sw_ross said:
That's the simplest way to use a generator with this setup...
Using an ATS complicates the setup.

My query is that if you have a "whole-farm" generator and set it up by the meter (isolating switch) with an ATS, that ATS becomes the service for the whole farm?
You don't have 4-wire setups for each structure. Grounds and neutrals aren't separated in panels.
How does this affect your setup when service is now at the meter?
Adding the 4th wire is unlikely to happen.
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Such transfer switches that POCO's are installing are not listed, probably about same thing you have where you are, but they can get away with it because they don't have to comply with NEC.

I would still run 4 wires to generator (if neutral isn't bonded in the generator). That way it will be bonded at this transfer switch and the EGC back to the generator bonds the generator frame. It is same thing you would do if it were a listed transfer switch anyway.
 
Well, the three farrms I had dealings with were all in the eighties so...
but all were pretty similar. had a meter up near the road, a line ran up the drive across several poles toward the house, and there you had a disconnect that allowed the whole farm to be disconnected... that went back up the pole with a wire from the pole to the house, which entered a panel with main breaker etc... then you had different lines from the pole strung out to the different buildings that got power, each of them also having what was a main panel and breaker... not sure how legal such a set up was or is, but at all of them the panels were usually the screw in fuses, except for old man Peckinpaughs Dairy barn, with the fancy milk machines... that one had a new breaker panel on it. Even the crew quarters or bunk house as he called it had a panel just inside the door.

Frank was the one who taught me wiring, well, what little I know, and I can tell you, he checked every one of those buildings before he reconnected the wires to them. Remember him running a trench between two of the buildings and stringing in wire to the ground rods because he said the buildings needed connected... he said that was something he learned working for Dupont...
 
Adamjamma said:
Well, the three farrms I had dealings with were all in the eighties so...
but all were pretty similar. had a meter up near the road, a line ran up the drive across several poles toward the house, and there you had a disconnect that allowed the whole farm to be disconnected... that went back up the pole with a wire from the pole to the house, which entered a panel with main breaker etc... then you had different lines from the pole strung out to the different buildings that got power, each of them also having what was a main panel and breaker... not sure how legal such a set up was or is, but at all of them the panels were usually the screw in fuses, except for old man Peckinpaughs Dairy barn, with the fancy milk machines... that one had a new breaker panel on it. Even the crew quarters or bunk house as he called it had a panel just inside the door.

Frank was the one who taught me wiring, well, what little I know, and I can tell you, he checked every one of those buildings before he reconnected the wires to them. Remember him running a trench between two of the buildings and stringing in wire to the ground rods because he said the buildings needed connected... he said that was something he learned working for Dupont...
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Still in many ways the same today. Except the dairy barn now has a 480 volt three phase service and maybe 600 amps capacity, and they milk 24 or more cows at a time instead of 4-6.
 
so, using 230.91 and also using the 6 disconnect rule, this means that one is limited to a small outdoor breaker box at the main input to the farm, before feeding to the house, the barns, the worksheds, the other such buildings..lol...

hmmm... thinking that fused disconnects would be only way to go... the minute you start using breakers and such you end up having to switch from service to the buildings rules to sub panel rules... but if you treat it like the POCO treats the buildings in a neighborhood, the fused disconnects, service rated, should be acceptable... tapping at each disconnect if you have more than 6 buildings...lol... but again, am a student so probably wrong...

How many main services can be connected to a service disconnect as taps? After the main meter, but before main panels in different buildings? Or are the new rules starting to make it so large companies and farms have no choice but to run multiple meters due to the 6 disconnect rule?
 
Adamjamma said:
so, using 230.91 and also using the 6 disconnect rule, this means that one is limited to a small outdoor breaker box at the main input to the farm, before feeding to the house, the barns, the worksheds, the other such buildings..lol...

hmmm... thinking that fused disconnects would be only way to go... the minute you start using breakers and such you end up having to switch from service to the buildings rules to sub panel rules... but if you treat it like the POCO treats the buildings in a neighborhood, the fused disconnects, service rated, should be acceptable... tapping at each disconnect if you have more than 6 buildings...lol... but again, am a student so probably wrong...

How many main services can be connected to a service disconnect as taps? After the main meter, but before main panels in different buildings? Or are the new rules starting to make it so large companies and farms have no choice but to run multiple meters due to the 6 disconnect rule?
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Fused disconnect is as much of a service disconnecting means as a circuit breaker, use of one vs the other doesn't change anything.

Tapping at the service disconnect - tapping on the supply side gives you multiple service disconnecting means - you can't have more than six per service (some exceptions for fire pumps, emergency circuits etc.).

Tapping on the load side gives you additional feeders - there is no limit to how many feeders you can have.
 
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