Looking for some suggestions on how to combat a extremely long run for a farm house. The electrical service drop is on the edge of the road, and they would like to put a new house in a area that shows a nice view. The problem is the distance between. I am looking at 1500 feet+. With the voltage drop, it looks like it would be 500 MCM wire. Yikes! Any suggestions. Transformers? Just wondering what anybody might think. High Voltage line addition would be about 17,000. Thanks!
farm house, long run, voltage drop
- Thread starter yanert
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charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Talk to the serving electric utility about another electric service from a transformer. It would be stupid (not to mention a Code violation) to try to transform up and then down for Joe Homeowner (can you imagine him out there with a hot stick?). :roll:
Talk to the serving electric utility about another electric service from a transformer. It would be stupid (not to mention a Code violation) to try to transform up and then down for Joe Homeowner (can you imagine him out there with a hot stick?). :roll:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Charlie,
What code section would be violated if you use transformers at each end? It may not be practical, but I don't see a violation just because you used transformers to step the volatge up and down.
Don
Charlie,
What code section would be violated if you use transformers at each end? It may not be practical, but I don't see a violation just because you used transformers to step the volatge up and down.
Don
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Don, it looks like I shot from the lip and misspoke (that is one of the perils of answering a question without having a Codebook with you). I was referring to 210.5(E), which only refers to branch circuits. I think the principal should be applied to this situation but since my hard drive crashed, I don't have access to my electronic version of the NEC. In other words, I can't do any searches right now so I can't say for sure that I was correct or not (I suspect I was dead wrong).
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
When you say High Voltage Addition would be about $17000, is that what the utility wants to extend
their line to the location of the new house? If so, that is absurd. What are they in business for if not to serve new customers.
Trying to serve this load with secondary is also
absurd. You can direct bury 1 #2 AL URD type
15 kv cable and install a transformer at the house
and have no voltage drop. I don't know the cost but it may be cheaper than $17000. Disadvantage is the home owner owns the cable and transformer. Any failures are at his expense to repair plus getting someone capable to do the work.
Maybe someone can give an estimate to install the cable and transformer.
[ July 02, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: bob ]
When you say High Voltage Addition would be about $17000, is that what the utility wants to extend
their line to the location of the new house? If so, that is absurd. What are they in business for if not to serve new customers.
Trying to serve this load with secondary is also
absurd. You can direct bury 1 #2 AL URD type
15 kv cable and install a transformer at the house
and have no voltage drop. I don't know the cost but it may be cheaper than $17000. Disadvantage is the home owner owns the cable and transformer. Any failures are at his expense to repair plus getting someone capable to do the work.
Maybe someone can give an estimate to install the cable and transformer.
[ July 02, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: bob ]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Good idea, lets get Joe Homeowner in the over 600 volt business.
Sorry to be so sarcastic but if Joe Homeowner has complete control of his transformer, along with the primary and secondary, plus the riser and primary OC protection, I can see Joe at a funeral . . . his own.
Good idea, lets get Joe Homeowner in the over 600 volt business.
Sorry to be so sarcastic but if Joe Homeowner has complete control of his transformer, along with the primary and secondary, plus the riser and primary OC protection, I can see Joe at a funeral . . . his own.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Charlie:
At least in this part of the country getting realistic cost from the local utility is hard. Could give you several examples if you care to hear me droan on.
I paid $6000.00 even for primary distribution to my house. The XMFR is 1400 feet from the main road. Neighbor moves in and the utility connects him to the secondary of the their XMFR for free.
The utility rep told me someone else paid for the distribution (ME) and that was not their concern.
Oh yeah had I been able to go overhead it would have been free. (right away issues prevented this)
Oh well I still have lights.
Such is life
Charlie:
At least in this part of the country getting realistic cost from the local utility is hard. Could give you several examples if you care to hear me droan on.
I paid $6000.00 even for primary distribution to my house. The XMFR is 1400 feet from the main road. Neighbor moves in and the utility connects him to the secondary of the their XMFR for free.
The utility rep told me someone else paid for the distribution (ME) and that was not their concern.
Oh yeah had I been able to go overhead it would have been free. (right away issues prevented this)
Oh well I still have lights.
Such is life
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Yes, you do have rights and they rest with the state utility commission. If you can't get satisfaction from the electric utility, go to the commission with a written complaint. The electric utility will then be required to answer both you and the commission. You may not get the answer you are seeking but the commission will not let you get a load of BS.
Yes, you do have rights and they rest with the state utility commission. If you can't get satisfaction from the electric utility, go to the commission with a written complaint. The electric utility will then be required to answer both you and the commission. You may not get the answer you are seeking but the commission will not let you get a load of BS.
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Charlie
Perhaps you had a bad day. I think it may be
said that "it looks like I shot from the lip and misspoke again". Its too bad that this subject is even being discussed. In my area the utility will extend a line to a Residential Customer at no cost regardless the the length of the extension. Commercial and industrial customers are based revenue. Surley you don't think we will find the homeowner lying at the base of the riser pole, fried because he forgot to wear rubber gloves while refusing the cutout. Surley we won't find him tangled in the secondary while trying to tighten a loose connection. The customer is being asked to donate $17000 to the utiltiy because they are refusing service. He has a right to alternate plans and a cost for plans. Yes the cable will fail at some time. We all know this. But the cable produced today far exceeds the cable of the 70's and 80's and they lasted 15 years. He should be made aware of the problems associated with primary service and let him choose. Its his money.
[ July 03, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: bob ]
Charlie
Perhaps you had a bad day. I think it may be
said that "it looks like I shot from the lip and misspoke again". Its too bad that this subject is even being discussed. In my area the utility will extend a line to a Residential Customer at no cost regardless the the length of the extension. Commercial and industrial customers are based revenue. Surley you don't think we will find the homeowner lying at the base of the riser pole, fried because he forgot to wear rubber gloves while refusing the cutout. Surley we won't find him tangled in the secondary while trying to tighten a loose connection. The customer is being asked to donate $17000 to the utiltiy because they are refusing service. He has a right to alternate plans and a cost for plans. Yes the cable will fail at some time. We all know this. But the cable produced today far exceeds the cable of the 70's and 80's and they lasted 15 years. He should be made aware of the problems associated with primary service and let him choose. Its his money.
[ July 03, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: bob ]
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
The line extension practice varies with the serving utility. Charlie represents the utility side and I highly regard his posts. A common question is how high does the meter go?
Consider this: The meter is not required by the NEC. It seems to me the utility sends us the electricty, and then gets it back through the other wire. In fact they sell the same electricty hundreds of times a day. The last time any new electricty was generated was 1927.
Well not really. Pehaps Charlie will expaline why not...
The line extension practice varies with the serving utility. Charlie represents the utility side and I highly regard his posts. A common question is how high does the meter go?
Consider this: The meter is not required by the NEC. It seems to me the utility sends us the electricty, and then gets it back through the other wire. In fact they sell the same electricty hundreds of times a day. The last time any new electricty was generated was 1927.
Well not really. Pehaps Charlie will expaline why not...
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: farm house, long run, voltage drop
Here in North west Indiana we do have a few primary metered services and they do require someone with the expertize to work on them NIPSCO (The local POCO) will do the work and contract for it. If Glen is around he will know about Broadway speed way even though it is a Commercial venue but the customer still owns it just the same. but there is a limit on how far the POCO will come off the right of way without requiring you to give up more right of way for them to run to a house.
Here in North west Indiana we do have a few primary metered services and they do require someone with the expertize to work on them NIPSCO (The local POCO) will do the work and contract for it. If Glen is around he will know about Broadway speed way even though it is a Commercial venue but the customer still owns it just the same. but there is a limit on how far the POCO will come off the right of way without requiring you to give up more right of way for them to run to a house.
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