Federal Pacific Circuit Breakers

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I can't say I have first hand knowledge but would say in my area it is common knowledge. the FPE stuff is bad news. Those connections get loose, heat, and do exactly what you see on that web site. I've seen burnt breakers before but have not personally been involved with an incident. I have had the loadcenters replaced.
 
I have never installed a FPE panel but I have been around many of them. This area has many FPE panels that have lasted for years and are still going. I can only say there has been much discussion about the lack of ability to trip in a fault situation.

I am curious as to whether this problem is for the newer (still old) version of FPE or is it across the board. In other words are the really old breakers a problem also or are the problem breakers ones that were installed after a certain date?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I am curious as to whether this problem is for the newer (still old) version of FPE or is it across the board. In other words are the really old breakers a problem also or are the problem breakers ones that were installed after a certain date?
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The "problem" is not confined to just the CB, the bus is also in question as is the connection between bus and CB.

http://www.codecheck.com/pdf/electrical/240overcurrent/FPE Article from DH - Nov2003.pdf

Scroll on down to pictures 5,6,7, 8, and 9

Just prior to the #10 picture, is a little bit on the replacement breakers.

All good reading and one of the handouts I give potential customers when this question is sked.
 
Testing Federal Pcific Breakers

Testing Federal Pcific Breakers

We have set up a test of about 80 15 amp fed-pac stab-loc breakers. We removed the breakers from the panel, and set up a low-voltage circuit with a 22 amp AC source, an amp-clamp, and a special timer that stops a stopwatch with current flow (great to know a little electronics, isn't it?)

Most of the 15 amp breakers, when challenged with a 22 amp AC current, tripped in about 30-45 seconds. About 10% tripped in well over a minute. One tripped at 3 minutes the first time it was tested, then 25 minutes (after cooling down of course) 17 minutes, and 3 minutes. That one is clearly defective, and the ones that took over a minute are suspect. None of the breakers in this test were observed to "no-trip", i.e. never trip. I'm going to complete some repeat tests this week and see how that goes.

While I don't see the extreme failure rate reported by the guy at codecheck.com, I do see enough to make me worry.
 
lile001 said:
We removed the breakers from the panel,....
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Your test method is flawed.

The problem is not confined to the CB unilaterally.
The bus connection to the CB is also suspect (see my previous posting #6 )
 
lile001 said:
Most of the 15 amp breakers, when challenged with a 22 amp AC current, tripped in about 30-45 seconds. About 10% tripped in well over a minute. One tripped at 3 minutes the first time it was tested, then 25 minutes (after cooling down of course) 17 minutes, and 3 minutes. That one is clearly defective, and the ones that took over a minute are suspect. None of the breakers in this test were observed to "no-trip", i.e. never trip. I'm going to complete some repeat tests this week and see how that goes.
Click to expand...

You test current is probably too close to the nominal setting of the breaker to get a statistically meaningful test (although I agree 25m is suspect). Many overcurrent protective device time-current curves do not become readable before 1.25-1.5x nominal.

At least one well respected circuit 15A breaker will take up to 50 sec at 22A. And it looks like a well known 15A fuse could take more than 300 sec (5 min).
 
At least one well respected circuit 15A breaker will take up to 50 sec at 22A. And it looks like a well known 15A fuse could take more than 300 sec (5 min).
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And the UL standard for breakers will permit up to one hour before trip with a 20.25 amp load on a 15 amp breaker.
Don
 
great website

great website

its has made me a lot of money replacing panels, when homeowners see this they freak out !!!and call for replacement the next day!! PRINT OUT THE BEST PARTS OF IT AND GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO HAS F.P.E. YOU'LL GET THE JOB.
 
It is interesting that many of the comments talk about the problems with the "stab-loc" bus/breaker connection. This design is still sold by Schneider (the owner of SquareD) in Canada and their website says:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif]Stab-lok. lock into low installed cost and proven qualit[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]y[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Stab-lok circuit breaker system continues to set the industry standard for durable connections. With the Stab-lok system, the stab actually expands under load: working to increase surface contact area and pressure, automatically cooling the connection.
Click to expand...
Don
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Federal Pacific Circuit Breakers

I have never installed FPE panels but I have replaced many of them. The problem I see is the breakers won't stay plugged in. As someone said if you take the cover off some breakers come loose. Also they trip funny. I don't scare any customer in replacing any panel. I usually show them how the breakers won't stay plugged in and that I personally don't like them and in most cases they let me change them. Just my three cents worth. Semper Fi.
 
i saw one on a 120 circuit (christmas tree in a bank) melt the outlet. the lights on the tree were fused otherwise it would have been a bad deal.
funny thing is the breaker never tripped.
also another time watched a guy wireing a j-box hot,120 also, the hot wire got intothe box and melted a cresent in the box about 1 1/2" long, again the breaker never tripped.
imo theyre bad bad news.
 
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