Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) .... fuses?

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brycenesbitt

Senior Member
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United States
The owner of the pictured property got a notice of non-renewal from their insurance company
(this is California) and forced onto the State's "Fair Plan". The company cited the Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) panels.
1961 construction date.

Fair enough, those FPE breakers are junk:

Federal Pacific Electric FPE Panel/Breaker Hazards - CPSC Closing Statement Drops Research on Stab-Lok® Hazard Research

CPSC statement on closing of the investigation of Federal Pacific Electric FPE Panel/Breaker Hazards - CPSC Information CPSC drops research on this item and issues a closing statement. However the engineers at CPSC never indicated that they felt that there was no hazard involved. The cessation...
inspectapedia.com inspectapedia.com
And every box says Federal Pioneer No-ARK (for the 100A ones) and Federal Pacific Electric (for the 60A ones):
Federal Pacific Electric FPE Fuses.jpg

FPE all the way. But turns out: they're not breakers. Anyone seen FPE stab lock fuses? Is there any data on any issues with such fuses?FPE Fuse Holder 60A.jpg

Fuses are more reliable than breakers, that we know. So the question is to push back on the insurance company
that this is a lower priority than other issues, because fuses work fine?
 
That is quite a bit of heat discoloration on those contacts. It could be hard to argue they are not past intended life.
 
While not a fan of FPE, & there is not a huge base of their products installed locally the only FPE product line in disrepute is their Stab lok loadcenter line.
 
FPE Stab-lok issue was just residential breakers I think you should send the insurance company information from the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) which was updated as late as 2011:
www.cpsc.gov

Commission Closes Investigation Of FPE Circuit Breakers And Provides Safety Information For Consumers

Commission Closes Investigation Of FPE Circuit Breakers And Provides Safety Information For Consumers
www.cpsc.gov www.cpsc.gov

UL and CPSC never released the results of their testing, even after congress asked them to recently:

The paper home inspectors often cite is this one, a engineer tested 500 FPE breakers, and 3 Canadian ones, I have not been able to verify the accuracy of this nor the testing methods and procedures;
An interesting quote from the study is this one:
"Some bussbars are copper, others are aluminum. Some posts are copper, others are aluminum. The worst case (most likely to fail) is where both the bussbar and the post are made of aluminum" (Page 12)
 
tortuga said:
FPE Stab-lok issue was just residential breakers I think you should send the insurance company information from the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) which was updated as late as 2011:
www.cpsc.gov

Commission Closes Investigation Of FPE Circuit Breakers And Provides Safety Information For Consumers

Commission Closes Investigation Of FPE Circuit Breakers And Provides Safety Information For Consumers
www.cpsc.gov www.cpsc.gov

UL and CPSC never released the results of their testing, even after congress asked them to recently:

The paper the home inspectors cite is this one, a engineer tested 500 FPE breakers, and 3 Canadian ones, I have not been able to verify the accuracy of this nor the testing methods and procedures;
An interesting quote from the study is this one:
"Some bussbars are copper, others are aluminum. Some posts are copper, others are aluminum. The worst case (most likely to fail) is where both the bussbar and the post are made of aluminum" (Page 12)
Click to expand...
The bolt in ones were dangerous too, they are slow to trip too due to design. I’ve melted several inches of copper off trying to get them to trip in the old days. I think they only had thermal trip, and no magnetic trip capability. Just what I’ve experienced with them. Never had a problem with the buss or buss connection.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Other than being old, their inspector just seen Federal Pacific and automatically rejected it.
Click to expand...
The inspector judged the book by the cover, literally. Like others I am concerned by a different color, that of the fuse holder. At the same time there's no sign of heat stress on the bakelite like plastic, or the feed wires.

---
There's quite a bit more breaker safety research at:
 
brycenesbitt said:
The inspector judged the book by the cover, literally. Like others I am concerned by a different color, that of the fuse holder. At the same time there's no sign of heat stress on the bakelite like plastic, or the feed wires.

---
There's quite a bit more breaker safety research at:
Click to expand...
Very interesting read.

It appears UL 489 compliance is not enforced, and circuit breakers may be junk below 200% rated current.

Molded Case Circuit Breakers - Some Holes in the Electrical Safety Net
Publisher: IEEE, Jesse Aronstein; David W. Carrier
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8283732

"..Some manufacturers do not test all breakers that they produce for the UL489 135% must trip requirement [7]. Instead, to minimize test time and cost, they test at 200% of rated current or higher and rely on an assumption that there is a dependable current-time trip relationship. That assumption may be erroneous for some circuit breaker product lines."
 
brycenesbitt said:
Federal Pacific are supposed to be thermal magnetic.
Pushmatic & Bulldog circuit breakers use a thermal breaker design with no magnetic trip mechanism
Click to expand...

.When you say "Bulldog" be aware that Bulldog Electric, was used on meter mains, with ITE QP breakers in the 1960's. Bulldog, was the original company that produced Pushmatic, breakers & Vacubreak, safety switches, prior to being bought by the ITE Circuit Breaker Co.
 
brycenesbitt said:
Pushmatic & Bulldog circuit breakers use a thermal breaker design with no magnetic trip mechanism.
Click to expand...
There are conflicting opinions by contractors who dissect the guts, and the company employees, who both posted comments on inspectapedia.com

According to employees of ITE Imperial,
“Under all normal circumstances, the Pushmatic breaker operated more quickly under short circuit than any competitive device.”

And

“The ITE, Gould and Siemens labeled Pushmatic breakers all have magnetic trip and thermal trip features by applying a magnetic coil in series with a trimetal. Magnetic trip time within 1 1/2 cylces at 60 cycles. Manufactured in Bellefontaine, Ohio and nolonger produced.”
 
Its not surprising at all that when you read past page 1 of the research on bad breakers or panels from the 60's and 70's that the majority of offenders are panels with an aluminum buss, aluminum alloys were different back then and no matter what brand. IMO they should have separated the data between the aluminum breakers and the copper ones.
 
I am also in California and most insurance agencies have sent termination notices on federal pacific service panels. Occasionally, they call out Zinsco service panels as well. Though, they mostly just call out the breaker section or subpanels with zinsco breakers in them.

I think they are trying to get out of California. Unless there are people from other states seeing the same notices?
 
Elect117 said:
I am also in California and most insurance agencies have sent termination notices on federal pacific service panels. Occasionally, they call out Zinsco service panels as well. Though, they mostly just call out the breaker section or subpanels with zinsco breakers in them.

I think they are trying to get out of California. Unless there are people from other states seeing the same notices?
Click to expand...
Here on the east coast the issue was with aluminum wiring from the 60's and 70's 10 AWG and smaller. Al wire was linked to dozens of fires in new homes at the time. Some of you may remember the same fed consumer safety people investigating the breakers also were first investigating aluminum and Kaiser Aluminum sued the feds to gag them and tried to blame bad breakers.
 
ramsy said:
There are conflicting opinions by contractors who dissect the guts, and the company employees, who both posted comments on inspectapedia.com

According to employees of ITE Imperial,
“Under all normal circumstances, the Pushmatic breaker operated more quickly under short circuit than any competitive device.”

And

“The ITE, Gould and Siemens labeled Pushmatic breakers all have magnetic trip and thermal trip features by applying a magnetic coil in series with a trimetal. Magnetic trip time within 1 1/2 cylces at 60 cycles. Manufactured in Bellefontaine, Ohio and nolonger produced.”
Click to expand...
Yep. The only time you will have the thermal-only versions is if it says Bulldog and not along with ITE or one of the other owners names on it. When ITE bought them, they added the mag trip.
 
Elect117 said:
they are trying to get out of California. Unless there are people from other states seeing the same notices?
Click to expand...
There is an ineresting report on this.

Homeowners are left high and dry after mass non-renewal and cancellation occurs before disasters hit, while underwriting investors keep billions in forfeit premiums.

The difference with the FAIR Plan, or “insurance of last resort” in 30 other states, is the underwriters repeat this cycle thru different agencies, when cashing in their collection of much higher premiums.

Whats not discussed in this article is denied casualty claims, by non-renewal and cancellation, for other causes.

Increased hazards not covered are simple to find with missing building permits, fire marshal reports of missing safety devices, or DIY construction defects, presumed by lack of documentation.

In all cases, property owners are the proven cash cow cannibalized by financial usury.

If individuals want justice they must risk leveraging the legal industry, against the other predatory industry, without becoming a free meal for hungry lawyers.
 
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Elect117 said:
Occasionally, they call out Zinsco service panels as well. Though, they mostly just call out the breaker section or subpanels with zinsco breakers in them. I think they are trying to get out of California. Unless there are people from other states seeing the same notices?
Click to expand...
I've successfully taught some insurance reviewers the difference between Zinsco mains (no bus bar) and Zinsco subpanels with copper or aluminum bus bars. Some of them a good cleanup and some dielectric grease is all they really need, but the insurance company likes simple answers, and frankly wants to get out totally.
 
gene6 said:
Here on the east coast the issue was with aluminum wiring from the 60's and 70's 10 AWG and smaller. Al wire was linked to dozens of fires in new homes at the time. Some of you may remember the same fed consumer safety people investigating the breakers also were first investigating aluminum and Kaiser Aluminum sued the feds to gag them and tried to blame bad breakers.
Click to expand...
I suspect initial torque had a lot to with that issue, combined with the metal relaxing over time. The AL are likely more sensitive to torque. Had "wago" type spring connectors existed at the time, there may never have been an issue.
 
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