Federal Pacific - The definitive answer

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jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI, PI, RBO
I just found this. http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/federal-pacific-definitive-answer-44106/

This is from Google Alerts:

"Federal Pacific - The definitive answer - InterNACHI Message Board
By jfarsetta
By having insurance companies demand a inspection that identifies the problem. Then the insurance company sends a letter to the homeowner demanding that they upgrade or lose their coverage. ... I hate coming across a FP panel. I called out one and the electrician told the homeowner nothing was wrong with it. So now I'm hesitant. The home owner was not happy having to pay a electrician when according to the electrician nothing was wrong with it. ...
InterNACHI Message Board - http://www.nachi.org/forum/ "


No good answers there yet. I just thought 'IF' something was good we would ALL like to know.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
jxofaltrds said:
I just found this. http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/federal-pacific-definitive-answer-44106/

This is from Google Alerts:

"Federal Pacific - The definitive answer - InterNACHI Message Board
By jfarsetta
By having insurance companies demand a inspection that identifies the problem. Then the insurance company sends a letter to the homeowner demanding that they upgrade or lose their coverage. ... I hate coming across a FP panel. I called out one and the electrician told the homeowner nothing was wrong with it. So now I'm hesitant. The home owner was not happy having to pay a electrician when according to the electrician nothing was wrong with it. ...
InterNACHI Message Board - http://www.nachi.org/forum/ "


No good answers there yet. I just thought 'IF' something was good we would ALL like to know.
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The problem is, as a HI you can only inform, and since you don't have any info such as a certified test of that particular panel and or it's breakers, how can you say that particular panel is dangerous? <<< see the legal problem with this?;)
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
hurk27 said:
The problem is, as a HI you can only inform, and since you don't have any info such as a certified test of that particular panel and or it's breakers, how can you say that particular panel is dangerous? <<< see the legal problem with this?;)
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Wayne

Agreed. I just think that this will be interesting to follow. Will this be hype or will it produce 'FACTS'?

But Wayne HI's are experts! I have them tell me all the time that I am wrong. That is why I come here. To learn.

Sarcasm!!!!!!!!!
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
jxofaltrds said:
We joined here on the same day. 2-20-03.
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LOL, that was the date when the forum was upgraded to all new software, the actual join dates was lost in that change over, as with our post amounts, we all had to start over, if you look many of the older members will all have that date as our join date because of it. I think it was "99" or "2000" when I joined, maybe earlier?:confused:
Cant remember.
I was preparing for some local test's around here, and we were still under the "96" NEC, and I had some book's from mike I was studying from, when I saw a link to this cite, but this was before the forum was here. soon as I saw the forum, I joined, reading mostly.
 
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shermansfather

shermansfather

Member
Location
Northeast Ohio
A couple of northeast OH suburbs have pre-sale inspection required before property can transfer. The RE agents like to get them before they put out the sign. One particular pre-sale inspector flags all FPE equipment (mains, subs, disconnects) for replacement. I know first hand that if a home owner or their EC contests the legality of this, the building dept. will reconsider and let it slide. I wouldn't want be the guy that okayed an FPE box after someone else has already pointed a finger.
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If I remember correctly FPE equipment has never lost it's listing from UL even though there have numerous problems with their stuff. So I'm wondering how anyone, insurance company or otherwise can insist that the FPE stuff be replaced.
 
shermansfather

shermansfather

Member
Location
Northeast Ohio
infinity said:
If I remember correctly FPE equipment has never lost it's listing from UL even though there have numerous problems with their stuff. So I'm wondering how anyone, insurance company or otherwise can insist that the FPE stuff be replaced.
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I see pre-sale (whether hired by the buyer or from the city before a sale is closed) HI's do it all the time. Even if the seller wants to contest it, they end up replacing the stuff rather than risk losing a sale especially in today's housing market. I won't put my neck out just to decline the work. In many cases I've seen the service was pretty shaky anyway
 
I

ItsHot

Senior Member
Location
A little piece of heaven!
infinity said:
If I remember correctly FPE equipment has never lost it's listing from UL even though there have numerous problems with their stuff. So I'm wondering how anyone, insurance company or otherwise can insist that the FPE stuff be replaced.
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I still see a ton of FP equipment in use. A lot of commercial. You got to love those "backwards" breakers! Pull the panel cover and flip off half the circuits!! Not that I would work anything hot!:roll: I guess insurance companies can request about anything they want. I get calls to upgrade panels, because insurance companies don't want to sell a policy on a home that has "fuse" panels.
 
iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
infinity said:
If I remember correctly FPE equipment has never lost it's listing from UL even though there have numerous problems with their stuff. So I'm wondering how anyone, insurance company or otherwise can insist that the FPE stuff be replaced.
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Insurance companies can request whatever they want as a condition of insuring the property.

I have read on the forums that in some areas insurance companies will not insure homes with old fuse panels.
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
An insurance company can deny coverage for just about anything but how can a Realtor or government agency require you to remove a listed electrical panel before you sell your property?
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
infinity said:
An insurance company can deny coverage for just about anything but how can a Realtor or government agency require you to remove a listed electrical panel before you sell your property?
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A buyer may write an offer on the property contingent on replacing the panel. Of course, the seller is under no legal obligation to accept the offer.

Wouldn't an AHJ be a governement agency?
 
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shermansfather

shermansfather

Member
Location
Northeast Ohio
In Ohio finding a credible buyer is not easy, few people will risk the deal over this argument. Once the FP word is used the panel has what my father called "The Indian Sign" on it.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
shermansfather said:
A couple of northeast OH suburbs have pre-sale inspection required before property can transfer. The RE agents like to get them before they put out the sign. One particular pre-sale inspector flags all FPE equipment (mains, subs, disconnects) for replacement. I know first hand that if a home owner or their EC contests the legality of this, the building dept. will reconsider and let it slide. I wouldn't want be the guy that okayed an FPE box after someone else has already pointed a finger.
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I was commenting on the bold portion of this post. That sounds like a government agency forcing a property owner to rip out a piece of listed equipment. My question is what do they use as a basis for this requiement?
 
MarkyMarkNC

MarkyMarkNC

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh NC
infinity said:
I was commenting on the bold portion of this post. That sounds like a government agency forcing a property owner to rip out a piece of listed equipment. My question is what do they use as a basis for this requiement?
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Because the government agency has to supply the fire trucks when the FPE panel burns the house down. :D
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
We do not have these in central Ohio so I did a Google and this is what I found.

http://www.shakeronline.com/Media/PDFs/Uploader/1292008135922PointofSaleFactSheetupdate10-31.pdf

"Seller Obligation: Owners of residential real estate, including single-family and two-family dwellings, duplexes, apartments, and condominiums, are required to obtain a Certificate of Inspection (Point of Sale) prior to entering into an agreement to sell or convey an interest in such property."

What if I did not have my home on the market and someone offered to buy it?

"The Housing Inspection Department strives to conduct Point of Sale inspections within 10 working days of receiving an application from November to February, and within 15 working days from March to October. All inspection reports should be issued within 10 days of being turned in for processing. "

Say what! I have to wait 15 days to enter into a contract.

I could not find what inspection list that they are using. BTW the 2006 RCO is the only code in Ohio (residential).

This sounds scary to me. ex post facto?
 
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