My service panel has a 2-pole 100 amp main breaker and I will be adding a 2-pole 60 amp breaker for a feeder panel that will be located directly below the service panel. The feeder panel will contain 12 breakers. Does the feeder panel require a 2-pole 60 amp main breaker? Please include the applicable NEC sections in any reply. Thanks.
Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
- Thread starter wlm2004
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pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
No, you will not need a main breaker. 408.16
Pierre
No, you will not need a main breaker. 408.16
Pierre
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
Thanks Pierre for showing me that 408.16-A, exception 1, covers this scenario.
I do not plan on doing the following but I am curious to know if technically I could: The 60 amp feeder panel could have up to 42 breakers (per 408.15) & still not require a 2-pole main breaker as long as the feeder panel is a Light & Appliance Branch-Circuit panelboard?
Thanks Pierre for showing me that 408.16-A, exception 1, covers this scenario.
I do not plan on doing the following but I am curious to know if technically I could: The 60 amp feeder panel could have up to 42 breakers (per 408.15) & still not require a 2-pole main breaker as long as the feeder panel is a Light & Appliance Branch-Circuit panelboard?
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
In your example the second panel does have a "main" breaker, it is the branch feeder breaker located in the first panel.
All Lighting and Branch Circuit panel boards require a main device, though there is no code section requiring the main to be in the panel.
In your example the second panel does have a "main" breaker, it is the branch feeder breaker located in the first panel.
All Lighting and Branch Circuit panel boards require a main device, though there is no code section requiring the main to be in the panel.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
We buy Main breaker 200 a panels actually cheaper than we can buy main lug panels since we buy so many at a time.When we do a split SER service we set meter ,disc. and feed the sub panel using the main breaker panel.I was questioned by the AHJ about this and my response was there is nothing that prohibits it.He had to pass it.You have to protect the sub panel at the point you are deriving power from weather it is adjacent to or away from the main panel.
We buy Main breaker 200 a panels actually cheaper than we can buy main lug panels since we buy so many at a time.When we do a split SER service we set meter ,disc. and feed the sub panel using the main breaker panel.I was questioned by the AHJ about this and my response was there is nothing that prohibits it.He had to pass it.You have to protect the sub panel at the point you are deriving power from weather it is adjacent to or away from the main panel.
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
Let's not forget the matter of accessibility. In the event the main source panel is not accessible to person(s) operating the sub-panel (i.e. a rental unit) another main must be contained in the sub-panel, and furthermore the main in the sub-panel would then have to be derated from the main source panel.
I apoligize for not having my code handy to quote from, however I would like to share this important fact that some guys confuse.
Let's not forget the matter of accessibility. In the event the main source panel is not accessible to person(s) operating the sub-panel (i.e. a rental unit) another main must be contained in the sub-panel, and furthermore the main in the sub-panel would then have to be derated from the main source panel.
I apoligize for not having my code handy to quote from, however I would like to share this important fact that some guys confuse.
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
Even though the only requirement that any branch circuit requires a main device to interrupt service I think it ultimately depends on the access to the new sub-panel. Typically I'm more comfortable for having a main for the sub-panel regardless of the breaker feeding it from the primary panel for various reasons: clear indication of what service is supplying the sub-panel, ability to terminate service to the sub-panel without access to the primary panel, etc. If new circuits need to be added later, or a change is required it's easy to terminate power to the panel to make changes, instead of being forced to find the primary panel if you don't have access to terminate the source, or forgetting that the sub-panel is hot, etc. That way you'll always be clear on what service is supplying the panel and whether or not it's hot.
I think this issue is more critical if your main panel doesn't have a main breaker or is a split-bus panel.
Even though the only requirement that any branch circuit requires a main device to interrupt service I think it ultimately depends on the access to the new sub-panel. Typically I'm more comfortable for having a main for the sub-panel regardless of the breaker feeding it from the primary panel for various reasons: clear indication of what service is supplying the sub-panel, ability to terminate service to the sub-panel without access to the primary panel, etc. If new circuits need to be added later, or a change is required it's easy to terminate power to the panel to make changes, instead of being forced to find the primary panel if you don't have access to terminate the source, or forgetting that the sub-panel is hot, etc. That way you'll always be clear on what service is supplying the panel and whether or not it's hot.
I think this issue is more critical if your main panel doesn't have a main breaker or is a split-bus panel.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
Also there is no access required for occupants if electrical maintenance is provided by the building management and where these are under continuous building management supervision.
My point is you can not say a single main is always required for every occupancy.
Many times things that I thought where code turned out not to be code just things we "always did that way"
Bob
There is no requirement for a "main" there is a requirement for a service disconnect and that could be a main lug panel with no more that 6 breakers.
Also there is no access required for occupants if electrical maintenance is provided by the building management and where these are under continuous building management supervision.
My point is you can not say a single main is always required for every occupancy.
I do not understand what you mean by
It is good you want to share but if you do not check the code book first you may just add to someones confusion.
Many times things that I thought where code turned out not to be code just things we "always did that way"
Bob
Re: Feeder Panel: Main breaker required or not?
230-92 is the article and section (99)I was referring to. On a typical two-family dwelling were the owner and first floor occupant are not at home, and no access is given (to the basement lets say)the tenant who resides on the second floor; a main shall be installed in the sub-panel (i.e, 60 amp)derated from the primary source main (i.e., 70 amp).
I've learned a lot from you Bob, so in the event I'm wrong I will stand corrected.
BobOriginally posted by iwire:
There is no requirement for a "main" there is a requirement for a service disconnect and that could be a main lug panel with no more that 6 breakers.
Also there is no access required for occupants if electrical maintenance is provided by the building management and where these are under continuous building management supervision.
My point is you can not say a single main is always required for every occupancy.
I do not understand what you mean by
It is good you want to share but if you do not check the code book first you may just add to someones confusion.
Many times things that I thought where code turned out not to be code just things we "always did that way"
Bob
230-92 is the article and section (99)I was referring to. On a typical two-family dwelling were the owner and first floor occupant are not at home, and no access is given (to the basement lets say)the tenant who resides on the second floor; a main shall be installed in the sub-panel (i.e, 60 amp)derated from the primary source main (i.e., 70 amp).
I've learned a lot from you Bob, so in the event I'm wrong I will stand corrected.
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